Archer Wrote:The OP said he didn't want to name names as it was fairly evident who was doing what. Fairly evident to one person does not mean fairly evident to others.
Well, I've had several other users PM me with agreement who DID name names, and they were they same names I was thinking of - so I'm guessing it's pretty obvious, so I'll stand by that for now.
But I'll be sure to report anything that I think's past the line from now on, if that will actually help.
Archer Wrote:If you have a problem with how someone on the board is acting, actually make the staff aware of it. Assuming it's obvious to everyone else and then being annoyed that nothing is done achieves nothing at all.
exactly. which means pming one of the admin or mods if the "!" does not seem to be meeting your needs.
Xanthus Wrote:Archer Wrote:The OP said he didn't want to name names as it was fairly evident who was doing what. Fairly evident to one person does not mean fairly evident to others.
Well, I've had several other users PM me with agreement who DID name names, and they were they same names I was thinking of - so I'm guessing it's pretty obvious, so I'll stand by that for now.
But I'll be sure to report anything that I think's past the line from now on, if that will actually help.
That other people have a problem with someone does not mean everyone does, and does not mean the mods know. And yes, PMing mods or reporting will help, because even if we disagree that there is a problem we can at least look into it.
So the problem isn't the rules then....or maybe it is. See, to me, no rules have been technically broken, but they sure have been bent. And that's a problem in and of itself. No consequences can be enforced if the rules have only been bent and it kinda pisses me off because I know the repeat offenders are smart people. They know they haven't broken any rules and therefore would be very wont to stand up and scream if they did get punished. Like you guys said, you can't force civility and a rules such as 'do unto others' can be seen as a threat. Not to me, but I've met my fair share of people that find 'doing unto others' quite a frightening concept- you'd be afriad too if you were a consumate ass all the time and knew it.
We come down to the fact that no rules have been broken. Now personally, I think the stated rules are fine; they don't need to be ammeded because of a few rotten apples that refuse to play nice with others.
I believe the only way to solve this is to call out the offenders. If no rules were broken then the admin don't have a leg to stand on. If we, as a community see members continue to misrepresent what we stand for and repeatedly bend the rules...well then, its up to us the people to stop this, no? There needs to be consequences not changes and concessions. I don't believe it would be just to start slapping members with sensitivity labels. That punishes those people that feel they are being attacked and might create a cliquish environment or seperations that we don't want to harbor.
i don't think we should announce any scapegoats just to make ourselves feel better. especially when everybody here feels that they have done nothing wrong.
i think someone mentioned it here already, the mods are working on a "guideline for posting", which does not only include asking questions in a civil manner, but also retracting from an offensive situation and giving others the chance to do so.
thank you all for your input!
Unless you can knock respect into people, adding a sensitivity selection is not going to work. I have walked away from quiet a few discussions on here just because of other people being disrespectful or plain ole idiots. It gets rather old. I am not going to report each person who I am offended by as I know they have a right opinion, regardless of how ignorant or misguided they may be. However, if there opinion is very disrespectful, I will report them. I am not going back to report every post I have a problem with, but maybe I should.
Maybe there should be guidelines on when to report someone.
BlissfulIsis Wrote:Maybe there should be guidelines on when to report someone.
If you believe someone is breaking a rule, and it bothers you. It really is that simple.
I also believe that people who do
not make staff aware of perceived problems do not have the right to complain about them after the fact.
Taiaka Wrote:So the problem isn't the rules then....or maybe it is. See, to me, no rules have been technically broken, but they sure have been bent. And that's a problem in and of itself. No consequences can be enforced if the rules have only been bent and it kinda pisses me off because I know the repeat offenders are smart people. They know they haven't broken any rules and therefore would be very wont to stand up and scream if they did get punished. Like you guys said, you can't force civility and a rules such as 'do unto others' can be seen as a threat. Not to me, but I've met my fair share of people that find 'doing unto others' quite a frightening concept- you'd be afriad too if you were a consumate ass all the time and knew it.
Maybe I am reading too much into this - but are you suggesting that some of the "interrogators" are specifically trolling and doing all they can to provoke people without actually crossing the line of breaking rules?
If you are saying that, that is a pretty extreme allegation and as such I would like you to PM me or another staff member with details - names and specific posts.
I am not being obtuse; it is just that I personally have seen nothing even remotely similar to what you describe.
Quote:Now personally, I think the stated rules are fine; they don't need to be ammeded because of a few rotten apples that refuse to play nice with others.
The flip side of that is, of course, "they don't need to be ammended because of a few rotten apples who take everything far too personally and assume other parties are out to get them".
Quote:I believe the only way to solve this is to call out the offenders.
I am generally not in favour of public calling out. Keep in mind, though, that if this did happen - for every cry of "That person is far too harsh and is damaging the community" there is going to be a cry of "that person is far too fluffy and is damaging the community".
I think certain people of both kinds are still very much inclined to say "I am not a kitten at all - but THAT person is a mean interrogator!" or "I am not an interrogator at all - but THAT person is a fluffy kitten!"
Quote:If no rules were broken then the admin don't have a leg to stand on. If we, as a community see members continue to misrepresent what we stand for and repeatedly bend the rules...well then, its up to us the people to stop this, no? There needs to be consequences not changes and concessions.
I see your point, even though I do not think anyone here has misrepresented what we stand for or repeatedly bent the rules. However, as above, if you are suggesting that the membership comes down especially hard on the interrogators, and that the mods either allow this or actively encourage it, then a consequence of that is the same happening to the kittens.
Archer Wrote:I see your point, even though I do not think anyone here has misrepresented what we stand for or repeatedly bent the rules. However, as above, if you are suggesting that the membership comes down especially hard on the interrogators, and that the mods either allow this or actively encourage it, then a consequence of that is the same happening to the kittens.
I don't see that as a forgone conclusion. I mean, if we do decide that INTERROGATION isn't acceptable, why does that automatically mean then, that every then has to answer every question?
This is, of course, assuming that you're not using the terms 'kitten' and 'fluff' interchangably. Then again, I don't think an inquisition is a good measure against fluffs either.
I have reported one person. But as I stated before that little "!" doesn't work on most sites so I never bothered with it until recently.
If people are blatantly disrespectful and they, themselves, state they have zero respect for other people or only a select few, in many places on the board....why should they have to be reported?