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My pastor has a question for everyone, and it's called the Four L's. It's more of a challenge, I guess.

He wants someone to come up with an answer for what Jesus is OTHER than these:

Legend (myth, a story, fictional,this counts if you think any part of the Christian story isn't true or is unbelievable)
Liar (a guy who really wanted people to think he's God)
Lunatic (a crazy guy who thinks he's God)
Lord (God, or the son of God, whichever you prefer)

He really wants to hear if someone can come up with an answer other than these. By the way, he is cool with otherkin, I even talked to him about it, and he believes there is nothing wrong with us (unlike most churches.)

So, please post what you think.
Devout Human or just Human? It's also possible that people far embellished what Jesus did, said, and believed in the Bible...afterall he didn't write it...
@ Sera

The bible doesn't really have devout humans. So, I'd say human. If you say embellishment, I'd put that under legend.
He's just an otherwise normal person that bore the weight of a deity's ambitions. He isn't innately holy, he isn't "otherkin", he's just a human that did what he believed to be right. The deity was simply hanging around and causing divine events around him to efficiently illustrate its own presence. If unbelievable things happen to the same place -- or the same person -- then it is far easier to attribute it as miracles and, by extension, "holy", as opposed to products of individual fantasy or delusion.

I suppose one could consider him little more than a pawn in a series of elaborate events. Some of said events may even be misattributed to him when, in fact, it had been no one or even someone else.
@Rain

Interesting. So would you put that under legend, liar or lunatic? I could see that going under any of those.
From what I believe of human nature, and what I feel of divinity, the book is most likely a great embellishment of the details. On top of that, what most know of the book is through the translated version, as it was not originally written in english (as far as I am aware). The translators were naturally biased towards their own interpretation, which is going to corrupt it even beyond what was originally written.

I do not believe him, if he did so exist, to have been either a Lord, Liar, or Lunatic. As far as being a "Legend", however, I am unable to answer.

Quoting you, it would be a legend "if you think any part of the Christian story isn't true or is unbelievable". If I absolutely do not trust the source as genuine, whether the words themselves are believable is irrelevant; the source mars the credibility.


Now let us move on to the nature of your pastor's "challenge". I believe you are using Legend as far too grand a blanket term. Using that definition, even Liar and Lunatic would fall under the definition of "Legend", as I do not believe the book itself paints him as either.

The challenge is basically "Do you believe? Or do you not?" with small, minor possibilities alluded to in order to present the illusion of freedom within the question as well as to further include those with reservations in the "I believe" group. If it were a multiple choice question, it would be...

Do you believe he existed?
No
Yes, but with major issues
Yes, but with minor issues
Yes
Isn't a legend, basically any story which some group of people believes is literally true?
@Rain
I'd say you called it pretty well. But, the categories can ONLY ever fall into 'do you believe or do you not', there is no way to ask around that.

@Chordal
Yes, but not by the definition I'm using for this. These days legend can be synonymous with myth, or fiction, although legend usually has some truth to it.
OK wait -- does the word have to start with L?

LOL please forgive me if that's a really dumb question!! <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->
@ava
Of course not. XD Just try to come up with something that can't be put in one of those four categories. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
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