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Freetha Wrote:How does your self-control work/function?

We're* generally more controlled than humans when it comes to dealing with each other. Other races, we don't inherently care about, but we can still exert patience if we want something from them in the long term and have to work for it.

Freetha Wrote:Are you able to voluntarily let go of your self control?

For the most part, I'd say yes.

Freetha Wrote:How much of it are you able to let go of?

I...suppose that depends on what we'd be doing?

Freetha Wrote:Is there something that your "self" (nature, soul, wards/binds) will not allow you to do, that would relate to/feel like self control or self control related?

We believe were energetically bonded, to a varying degree of extent, to others of our race. To be able to kill another of our race took a great deal of training and conditioning...but the majority of humans are the same way, just with a different set of underlying mechanisms and a different manner of conditioning required. (I base this statement on the statistics and examples given in the book On Killing, a study of human willingness to kill in war; we can give more data on humans if desired.)

Freetha Wrote:Are you sure whether or not these things are human/elven?

No, although I'm pretty sure that humans would have an aversion to killing other sentient species on a par with their aversion to killing humans. The rest is hypothesis, subject to revision as we get more data.


* In all cases in this post, "we" means the members of my system only. We do know someone who was the same type of elf that the elves of the system were - which may or may not be the alfar depending on how accurate some of our perceptions/memories are and whether the human perspective in the lore is consistent with the "inside" perspective on those data points we've seen from the lore. (And, as recently discussed in another thread, whether the translations are right on certain points we've gotten from said translations.) We've been chewing over the information in Free's post on what alfar are generally like, and will likely post here on that, after we feel we've pondered enough in private.
Those are interesting questions Freetha. I'm curious why these would occur to you, especially since you consider yourself to be half elven, and what your answers would be. Or are you trying to distinguish traits between rakshasa, elven, and human?
Mostly, I'm avoiding assumption by simply seeing if certain things "line up" or not. So far, it's a not.
It's more or less me going "huh,.. wonder why this is thus" and then asking around out of curiosity.
I'm not so much trying to distinguish traits between the races as I feel it'd be somewhat of a pointless effort, seeing as everything is overlapped by the simple fact I'm human atm and can't really separate that from anything else in my head.. but I figured I'd ask anyway ans see what I'd find.

My self control is a finicky thing. It's like it is in layers, and each layer is like syrup. Sticky and resists removal. The top layer is simply the ingrained, learned behavioral thing, whereas I will do things the way they're meant to be done, or the way I've always done them, out of a habit and a sense that it's the way it goes. It's conforming to the rules of society and all that.
Beneath that is a layer of self preservation sort of things. It's what makes you stop and look before you rush into traffic.
Under that is a layer of restraint that keeps me from lashing out. (For the lack of a better term.)

The first layer I can circumvent with more-or-less ease, to figure out new things, to dress in a manner of my choosing, etc. But it tends to creep up none the less and it results in me being excessively self conscious at times.
The second layer I can circumvent via meditation, preparation, and simple strength of will. This is what means I can go to a tattoo artist and be fine through the pain it causes me. This wall however is often up and as a result of that I have a difficulty with anyone/anything that I perceive as a dangerous thing or even just a thing of authority.
The third one never comes down, it never lets go, and I can't seem to get around it what so ever. It keeps me from getting proper angry, it keeps some of my self-preservation responses in check even so that even if I'm in a fight and cornered, there's something that stays my hand, figuratively speaking.

All in all I think I could kill a man if it was a thought out, well prepared for, sort of thing, but if it were a heat of the moment sort of thing I "know" that I'd maybe come within an inch of it, but never be able to cross that inch.

I can not voluntarily cross that border, I can not control it, I often feel like my self control is beyond my control and that it affects my emotions so strongly that sometimes I wonder if I "really" feel what I think I do, I mean, I'm capable of being hurt, insulted, irritated, disappointed, but sometimes it's like I just can't get proper angry, and I have been told that I seem dis-passionate, which I've thought about at length and found to be somewhat accurate, I have a hard time feeling passionate towards or about anything. I've been working with it since I was rather young and a lot of my drug and alcohol riddled years were, I guess, a search for release from this thing, but no matter how much I drink I can't even get this loose.
So I figured.. I'd see if anyone else'd be experiencing this, and knowing Ges I don't think it's a Rakshasa thing, which leaves elves and humans (more or less, if I'm at all right). It might be a human thing, simple result of my school experiences and so on, but it seemed worth asking about anyway. Just in case.
In the interest of "no stone left unturned" sorta thing.
Well, I did leave out socialization a bit. I was raised in such a way that the older I've gotten, the more I'm disregarding social convention and I was readily disregarding it at an early age. I tend not to think about it. Self-preservation is in there and is my general operation: how do I survive and prosper in a system that doesn't really mesh with my gears? I'm fairly sensitive, so pains build up in a cesspool I store and keep tightly bound (or try to - I've gained gaskets! <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->).

Like I said with my hypotheses, I don't know. Despite my observances, my knowledge of psychology and especially human psychology is still fairly limited. Most of my writings about trying to figure out human vs. inhuman psychology is based on trying to make sense of my observations, though really I'm reinventing the wheel from the perspective of an eggplant (well, maybe not an eggplant; how about a cephalopod?).
That's part of why I want to study psychology heavily.. if I can't find answers there, then I might consider metaphysical reasons.
How does your self-control work/function? I have a work/public and a "at home" mindset. Some of the "more elfy" things I tend to bottle up when I'm at work so as to not freak people out too much with my ideals, though I do have one person at work who is on about the same mindframe as me that I can talk to about some things. I tend to keep alot of things inside when I'm in public so I don't scare too many people off.

Are you able to voluntarily let go of your self control?
When I'm comfortable with doing so, then yes.

How much of it are you able to let go of?
Depends on what the situation is and where I'm at. I'm generally a bit more open when I'm in a place with Mika (my fiancee for those not in the know), but if I'm alone I'm usually careful about what things are let out in the open.

Is there something that your "self" (nature, soul, wards/binds) will not allow you to do, that would relate to/feel like self control or self control related? I'm generally hard on myself if I harm something in nature, unless there is absolutely no other way out of it. This is half of the reason why I do not drive automobiles, the other half being that other drivers scare the hell out of me.

Are you sure whether or not these things are human/elven? Not completely, though I attribute my qualms with harming nature with my elven self. Before my awakening I didn't really care if someone threw a candy wrapper or a cigarette butt on the ground, afterwards for me it became akin to someone scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.
Celestial, not elf, but I'll give it a shot too. These are difficult questions.

How does your self-control work/function? When I think of self-control I get this image of a puny human trying to hold back an elephant, but humans are resourceful so that doesn't mean a human can't hold back an elephant. Basically it's a question of whether or not the elephant will allow it. Still, that doesn't mean that I blindly pursue every stray thing that crosses my path. Elephants aren't stupid. I was usually one of the good kids in school. This wasn't a matter of self-control. It was just part of my natural desire to please people and to be one of the good guys. It seems to be a matter of my internal programming not a question of 'should' or 'should not.' If self-control is all about what I 'should' do then I'd say I don't have very much of it. If it's a matter of internal order, then I've got tons of it. (I guess for the purposes of these questions I'll go with the internal order definition.)

Are you able to voluntarily let go of your self control? I can't let go of my internal order entirely, but I can let go of certain internal structures. If I strip away one layer, there's still another layer underneath. This is pretty much happens when I have a mental shift. The patterns change, but there is still a pattern.

How much of it are you able to let go of? Enough that I've cringed a bit on returning to my usual mind state. I didn't do anything I regretted exactly, it has more to do with the way that it was done. Even when I 'lose control' it still fits the pattern.

Is there something that your "self" (nature, soul, wards/binds) will not allow you to do, that would relate to/feel like self control or self control related?
My internal wards seem to have nothing to do with what actions I may or may not take. It has more to do with keeping my energy in harmony within myself. Naturally some actions are more likely to disrupt that than others, but I can't say that it's the action itself that does it. I might kill in defense of another and then refuse to cheat on my tax return.

Are you sure whether or not these things are human/elven? (Celestial) No, not really.

You mentioned the inability to get angry. I can get angry, but hatred is not part of my make up. I'm not incapable of it, but it feels like a poison to me, makes me feel sick inside. I pretty much choose not to do it.
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