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true names
kahoku
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Post: #1
true names
do they exist? can a demon be summoned or controlled by them? how do we get them?

i'd like to hear some opinions before saying what i think. <!-- s:happy_demon: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy_demon.gif" alt=":happy_demon:" title="happy demon" /><!-- s:happy_demon: -->

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2009-11-12 12:21
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Seraphyna
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Post: #2
Re: true names
I don't so much believe in true names as knowing the nature of things. So say I want to summon you because you stole all my cookies, I don't think I'd be able to force you to appear before me by calling some archaic name *but* I *might* be able to do it if I knew your nature well enough to compel it to appear. Kind of like people who can influence elements ever so slightly by tapping into their nature (mind you I don't believe in full on elemental manipulation like pyrokinesis, but I do believe in abilities like influencing a fire to burn brighter and small effects like that).

All that being said, I'm not sure I even believe that any being could be compelled to appear before someone else, be controlled by them completely, etc. unless said "summoned" being in some way consents in the first place. Ya know, free will and all. And it's still a bad idea to try lol.

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2009-11-12 14:00
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Archer
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Post: #3
Re: true names
As per the common use of the term, I don't believe in "true names" anyway. It's an incredibly anthropocentric concept. "Archer" is a label for me but would be utterly meaningless except for the fact that I have human vocal apparatus and use grammatically organised sounds as my primary means of communication.

"Names" and "identities" are very, very different things. And I don't think it's really possible for people to truly know someone else's identity, unless in exceptional circumstances.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

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2009-11-15 1:36
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thetwins
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Post: #4
Re: true names
Now, I happen to believe that there are such things as true names. That if one so happened to know the true name of a demon that was not incarnated, one could try to summon and control it through that name. Whether or not one would be successful would be another matter altogether. For inasmuch as a true name will touch on the very core of who the demon is, the knowledge is less than useful if you don't know what you have or how to use it. And I am not entirely sure that we would recognize a true name as such if it wasn't marked somehow as being one.
There are birth names, legal names, the names we use and nick names we are given along the way. None of these are true names for all that they can identify someone. But these are the types of names we use most when it comes to others and ourselves. All of these can be shared by two different people that have no connections one to another. We would be more inclined to think that true names, on the other hand. are unique. But to go back to the names we know, how much any of them mean depends on how well you know the person being referenced. And in some cases the setting in which one name or another might be used.
Names in usage are tied to selves or personas. And while someone who knows you very well can convey that knowledge by tone in connection to the names we use, that is the closest thing we can think of to describe what it might feel like to hear someone use your true name. I know this is not a comprehensive answer that covers everything, but it is the best one I have at the moment.

Rain

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2009-11-20 3:36
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Miniar
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Post: #5
Re: true names
I don't believe in such a thing as "true name" at all.

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"Those who can't approach discussion with a basic level of intelligence and maturity shouldn't expect to be taken seriously." ~ Qualia Soup
2009-11-21 23:00
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simim23
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Post: #6
Re: true names
For the longest time I thought I had a "true name."

And then I realized it's really an energy signature, if anything. If someone were to grab a "piece" of me and manage to contain it, it stands to reason they'd be able to pull me back to it. One of the few "memories" I have of anything involves that. o.O;;

And it wasn't awesome.

Simim: Rainbow poop at your disservice.
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2009-12-13 0:43
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Shadowman82
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Post: #7
Re: true names
I think quite frankly that most names were given to various spirits/demons by people and perhaps because this is how they recognize a particular entity it may just go by that name when it interacts with people in whatever fashion . This doesn't have to mean that this is it's true name or that it even has a name .
2010-01-21 9:01
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Terro
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Post: #8
Re: true names
I think that the concept of the True Name is more than just a title or a set of syllables we give voice to... I think that the concept of the True Name is similar to what Seraphyna brought up in that it is a capture of an entity's true being vocalized.

I do believe that names hold power, but more as a focus rather than an ace up the sleeve. Holding a cross made of wood makes no difference, using it as a focus point of willpower and an application of that will over another being on the other hand is different, the same as many other implements in many other faiths.

One thing is true however, greater knowledge of the subject is always prized and valuable no matter the practice, thus knowing it's most core essence in a set of syllables could potentially be quite useful. I don't believe it would be the aforementioned "ace up the sleeve" but I do believe it has a positive effect on whatever you are trying to do.

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2010-01-22 4:34
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Shailla
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Post: #9
Re: true names
It depends on what you define as a true name.

However I think that when someone comes to exist, he gets a name (let's skip the nameless ones, okay?). And this first name is connected to the core and nature of the that one being and is most powerfull. For me personally, this name is something that should be guarded and said noone but to those you trust most (and I mean like really trust). Then there are lost of other names with various attributes and powers (birthname, nickname and so on).

Everyone should know their true name and same goes for their sigil but today people are not skilled enough to find out or maybe they can't because it's kind of defense - I can imagine lots of idiots running on forums "Hey check this out, it's my sigil and my true name!".

"Oh look I have wings on my back!"
"So.., does it mean you can fly?"
"I- I don't know.."
2010-06-16 6:07
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Miniar
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Post: #10
Re: true names
The way I see it, a "true" name would have to be the very core identity of a being. The problem is, as a name, it can never be more than "a word that refers to that core identity" and as such is not the identity itself.

It's like, the word table is not actually a physical table, let alone the table you're referring to when you speak the word table.

If that makes sense to anyone...

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2010-06-16 14:17
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