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not being a "good person"
Chordal
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Post: #1
not being a "good person"
It's just me. I've not been having an easy time of it recently. Part of this has to do with the fact that my symptoms are starting to act up again, which means in this case that people have started to get uncomfortable around me when they don't know what's going on. So basically I find myself in a position where I have to explain to people what is happening so that they don't just go off on me. I've also had to take at least one day off of work because I've found myself so irritable that it's probable I could go off on somebody. I mean, I can be really nasty and angry, and not all the time because I want to be -- just because it takes playing pretend to try not to be.

I'm wondering about the health of continuing to identify with this part of myself -- the one that has trouble getting by in everyday life. I wouldn't be surprised if other people here could identify with this, though.

It's been quite a while since I've investigated anything related to Satanism or Demonolatry...and that's largely because I think that if I'm going to continue with that investigation, I'll need to look outside of Christian-influenced sources, basically back to ancient Near East sources. But also, I just haven't been investigating religion recently, as I've come to see it as somewhat of a dead end. Plus there's the fact that certain groups that I've looked into could be construed as (actual) cults, which means that the healthy thing to do is get distance.

So basically...I'm kind of in a grey area. In which, I suppose, I've always been. I've just gotten to the point where I'm not sure if owning the dark portions of this is particularly healthy, given that I'm the only person I know who attempts to take full ownership of their own qualities, regardless of whether others dislike or hate those qualities, or not.

I mean, it's fairly clear from my past and recent interactions that I do not fully fit into what is expected of a "human" or a "good person." Of course, though, I am not really *trying* to fit into a box of "human" or "good person", it's just that when it becomes evident that I differ from this, people tend not to know what to do...and socially, that isn't a good thing (as social interactions tend to run off of scripts with terms that it's assumed have been previously agreed-upon). I have realized recently, however, that I am not good socially, because I do things that are unexpected, and I do have so many aspects of myself which differ from what is expected.

On the up side, this keeps me from being manipulated as easily as I can see some others being manipulated (because they don't want to be seen as "bad people" or "heartless" or "cold"). On the down side, I have a tendency to cover myself up in order to avoid showing that I differ, because showing that I differ can make others uncomfortable. So a lot of the time, I tend to be silent instead of overtly whatever I am at the time. Sometimes that's a good thing (when I am in a really angry place) as it avoids conflict, but often it leads to people not knowing who I am, on a larger scale -- because the silence is habitual, and it takes some effort to break out of. And even sometimes when I'm silent and angry, as happened recently, my anger leaks through in ways that I don't think is showing, so maybe it would have been of more use to interrupt and state my needs.

Basically I do wonder about the ownership of this and whether what I've presented to myself as a desired identity ("Demon Jeweler") is really what I want to be. Last night it was fairly apparent (to me, at least) that I *was* being a Demon Jeweler, though I was pretty irritated at the time, as well. <!-- sTongue --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- sTongue --> Maybe it has to do with these unspoken social rules and the assumption that what people look like equates to who they are ("hey, you look like a human girl, so you must be a human girl") when the reality is very different ("I'm not a girl, and I'm not what you expect a human to be"). And I suppose that when this is a conscious realization, that other people are assuming you to be someone you're not (and running off of that assumption without asking you if they're right), this can be angering in itself.

Or when others have expectations that you will be someone you're not because of their own internalized rules, without actually looking at the reality of the situation and the reality that other people *are* other people and will not necessarily behave as expected...this can lead to conflict.

Maybe I'm just individuating, or something. I don't seem to have a lot of patience for other people's rules right now, even though I find myself being labeled as childish for getting visibly angry (I knew I was angry; I didn't know it was visible). Apparently I was glowering and didn't know it...

Anyhow, the reason I wanted to write this here is because I'm still torn around claiming a demonic label. I know that sometimes it fits, but it is not all the time what would be expected of someone who called themselves demonic. I mean, I can be happy and have fun (rarely), too. I know that recently I've had to redefine my gender presentation to "fluid" because of all these shifting ways of being. I suppose if being demonic did not by its essence (as defined here, anyway) incorporate the chaotic, I'd need to find another label, but as it is...I don't know. Maybe it fits?
2013-03-01 0:41
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Seraphyna
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Post: #2
Re: not being a "good person"
If you ask me, identifying as a demon dosn't mean you have to be dark and broody and whatever else. I know plenty of demonkin who are bubbly and glittertastic (Simmim I'm looking at you). "Demon" means different things to different people and, until you find a label of better fit, you can use whatever term you darn well please.

I find that I don't fit into people's notions of what I should be like, how I should act, or what I should believe...especially in terms of morality.

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2013-03-01 1:22
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Chordal
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Post: #3
Re: not being a "good person"
Seraphyna Wrote:If you ask me, identifying as a demon dosn't mean you have to be dark and broody and whatever else. I know plenty of demonkin who are bubbly and glittertastic (Simmim I'm looking at you). "Demon" means different things to different people and, until you find a label of better fit, you can use whatever term you darn well please.

I find that I don't fit into people's notions of what I should be like, how I should act, or what I should believe...especially in terms of morality.
Thanks, Sera.

I think that a big problem that comes up for me when I'm dealing with what term to use, is that it may bring up ideas in someone's head as to what I mean that is wholly not the idea I intend to get across. "Demon" is one of these words which tends to bring to -- other people's -- minds, the concept that I'm sadistic, untrustworthy, okay to harm, scary, damaged, etc. Though I have been apparently receiving the "scary" bit all on my own recently, other people tend to think they solidly know what a demon is and that I'm not it; or that if I am it, I'm someone that it's okay not to behave "decently" towards (and their mind doesn't approach the fact that we have two different concepts). I think they get "not human," (without my saying "not human") but "not human" means something different to them than it does to me. (Like "not a man and not a woman" means something different to most people than it does to me.)

Right now what I'm dealing with is trying to find a way to both support myself and be happy and healthy at the same time, and time is ticking down until my family will no longer be able and/or willing to support me. My greatest fear is that I'm going to end up homeless, which to me is likely worse than being dead (though now that I think about it, I do incidentally recall a few really decent-to-good people I know who actually *have* been homeless). I'm just so far out of the norm that I have a lot of minority statuses stacked against me. I've been trying to get together a career path, but the first option I've ever really tried is not something I want to remain doing for the rest of my life (it's primarily a social service job and I am very much not a social butterfly), which starts me back at the beginning again, just with more experience.

And then I've found something I like doing (the jewelry), but this is something that won't fully support me monetarily, so I have to have some kind of auxiliary career path...and my greatest skill is in writing, but I feel like that's not really a skill, because everyone can write. (But then, until shortly ago, I also thought everyone could make jewelry...which isn't necessarily the case.) So I'm faced with going back to school to learn career skills...and time is still ticking down. I'm getting older, everyone around me is getting older. And chances are that I'm eventually going to need to care for them, instead of them caring for me -- or else they'll be dead. And I, with my major social difficulties, have had a hard time making lasting meaningful connections outside of family, so family being gone is a major blow, even without the monetary issues.

It's seemed for a while that calling myself demonic was also cutting me off from connections I might otherwise make (say, with people who are very Christian) who I have actually liked. I've felt like I had a choice between being a Satanist or Demonolatress or identifying as a demon (as, I think I've mentioned before, the first aboveground demonolatry sect online, did not want members who thought they were demons...even though there was a miscommunication there, in people from the Otherkin community and people from the Satanist community using different definitions of "demon"). But I get to the point where I wonder if it's appropriate to continue to name and elucidate differences when I'm already really challenging norms as it is, without referring to myself as being anything demonic.

Of course, though, being different in so many ways in its own way may produce a countercultural identity that *is* demonic...because of all the ways I find myself alienated from, and unable to access, the norm, and in all the ways I've been attacked by people representing the norm. In that way it makes sense why I would be at times dark and broody. The problem is that often when one is dark and broody, and has as many (poorly-understood) health issues as myself, it can eliminate some people from one's life who might otherwise support one.

So I'm thinking that it's going to be a necessity to reach out of my comfort zone and make more real friends, so I will have a support network if or when my familial one fails. It's just that I've been hurt (or crazy) so often that I've hesitated to do that, you know? In one case I feel like I'll be rejected, and in the other case I feel like I can't present myself properly.

So...I need to leave and go to dinner now, but I'll be back later, if anyone wants to respond to this...
2013-03-01 4:42
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Seraphyna
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Post: #4
Re: not being a "good person"
You could always go with definition as label....instead of 'demon' you could always say 'chaotic energy being'. Or go with 'daemon' and just correct everyone that you mean in the Greek sense.

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2013-03-01 14:35
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Chordal
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Post: #5
Re: not being a "good person"
That's a good point, Sera. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
2013-03-02 4:39
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Edge
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Post: #6
Re: not being a "good person"
Like Seraphyna said, demons come in all sorts of flavours and I'd imagine all of them can be happy and have fun.
As for whether accepting the dark portions are healthy or not, I have some experience there. It may be different for you, but I'd highly recommend accepting yourself.
People will assume things and attach their own definitions to things no matter what you do.

I'm the one with the power around here. -Rumplestiltskin
2013-03-05 15:21
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Chordal
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Post: #7
Re: not being a "good person"
Edge Wrote:Like Seraphyna said, demons come in all sorts of flavours and I'd imagine all of them can be happy and have fun.
As for whether accepting the dark portions are healthy or not, I have some experience there. It may be different for you, but I'd highly recommend accepting yourself.
People will assume things and attach their own definitions to things no matter what you do.
Thanks for jumping in, Edge. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile --> When I was re-reading this thread this last time, I thought of the concept of M-shifting, and I'm kind of wondering if that's applicable to what happened (I even used the term "shifting" instead of "switching" without conscious awareness of the M-shift and P-shift terminology). I think part of what I'm dealing with is basically the concept that sometimes I am this person whom other people fear, and that this tends to act towards my being dehumanized. The thing is that I'm not entirely cognizant of when that is -- when I'm *not* coming off as "human" -- or if relationships can be continued past the point where I've frightened others. (I still have a memory of having a flashback in late high school and scaring people who were normally friendly to me.)

At this point, I'm more aware of how interrelated people are in a society, and thus not "fitting in" seems to have consequences as to one's quality of life...but that's me, and I worry about everything. <!-- sTongue --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- sTongue --> I was excluded from respect and acceptance in child and teen society for a number of years, and I've only recently experienced being included and feeling relatively safe in adult society (though as I look more outwardly not-straight, I can feel this slipping away). It's hard to accept parts of myself whom others -- even close family -- do not accept (and that's hard, when at various other times in history, they've been nearly the only ones to accept me). But then, with their histories, they can't understand the "demon" thing, either.

But I do guess, from past history, that the demoniac thread is probably a metaphor that's going to hang around me *at least* until I can untangle things psychologically. I'm also thinking back on my recent reading and I realize that I do need to accept the demon portion of myself if I want to have a functional, working system that's not at-odds with itself.

Re: Sera...somehow "chaotic energy being" doesn't quite encompass everything, but if you asked me why or how, I'd be hard-pressed to express why exactly I identified specifically as a demon and not simply as a chaotic energy being. It's the same question I've posed to various Demonolators in the past (why call these beings "Demons" and not Deities or lesser spirits), and I've never gotten a qualitatively good response. Maybe that's something to work on...because there is a bit there that maybe would be an important piece of the puzzle, if I'm trying to figure myself out...
2013-03-06 5:21
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Post: #8
Re: not being a "good person"
Right now I'm also wondering about the difference between having a strong tendency to dissociation and being demonkin, as well...this just flashed back into memory, so I should record it while I have access to it.

(Having many forms; a history which maybe I don't want to recall...those are the two bits I can think of as being in connection, now. I'll print out a copy of tonight's posts and work on them.)
2013-03-06 5:35
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Post: #9
Re: not being a "good person"
Seraphyna Wrote:If you ask me, identifying as a demon dosn't mean you have to be dark and broody and whatever else. I know plenty of demonkin who are bubbly and glittertastic (Simmim I'm looking at you). "Demon" means different things to different people and, until you find a label of better fit, you can use whatever term you darn well please.

I find that I don't fit into people's notions of what I should be like, how I should act, or what I should believe...especially in terms of morality.

Hahaha! I don't even fit into my own label as stereotypically given. Me being dark and broody happens once in a blue moon. Most of the time I'm neon and spastically optimistic.

And Chordal, you and me both. Religion just doesn't have a good definition of what I am, and what with the sheer amount of chaos that's happened to me in the last year, I haven't been much for research like I used to.

What can I say? No matter how different I feel, on a spiritual, psychological, mental, and emotional level, from the rest of humanity, I'm still in this body which needs human food, a job, an income, shelter, transportation... all these things that can't just be put aside. I've been moving farther and farther away from the introspective side of myself and more and more into "living with it."

Funny thing is that I'd pondered on that before, wondering if the only thing that kept me sticking on the notion of my existent human body, my notable lack of humanity, even the notion of 'kin, was continuously researching and dwelling on it. Yet, for the better part of a year or two now, I've always woken up, nonetheless, with the understanding that I'm still different: this hasn't gone away at all. I just don't contemplate it as much.

I still feed. I still feel hunger for energy and I still find myself lasting on binges and depleted without. I still shift. I still am always slightly surprised to see myself in the mirror. It's yet to "fade" or become a "phase I went through as a teenager." I grew up on forums like these. I'm an adult now and I haven't shook the belief. It's the most consistent concept I've ever held, moreso than any religious, spiritual, or mental belief (and even lack thereof.)

I've never been able to be a "good person" by societal standards. My moral compass has never existed. I've violated taboos of my family, my friends, my culture, my location, and even ones I've placed upon myself. In the past year or so especially, I've completely uprooted anything I could consider routine or comfortable. A year ago, I was in a different location, different home, with a different car, engaged, different job, all sorts of stuff. I can't say I regret a thing.

You've got to be able to give "this much" of a crap towards the world: eight letters' span, there. Anything else is for you to tell the world where to stick it. It's the best thing I ever learned, and it's been the one thing that's gotten me through the ups and downs I've been in. When life comes at you demanding you put aside your concern for it, you gotta tell life to piss off. If it doesn't concern me, and I can't objectively see a reason why it should or would, it's not worth my effort. It's not worth my emotional turmoil or hardship.

Socially speaking, I'm confused. It is downright mind-boggling how people I know tell me I am cool, or charming, or someone they would like to spend time with, when all I'm doing is spouting off my mind and generally being aloof. It's not like I'm purposely trying to be a jerk, but I'm by no means attempting to win over the hearts and minds of my peers. o.O;;

Being a woman is a great way to troll anyone. Oh yes, do people expect me to act a certain way. Oh no, have I ever been able to, or will ever be able, to be a "lady." I don't keep my mouth shut, I stand up to people bigger than me, I'll spit in their face and tell them all manner of obscenities before I'll let anyone trample over me. I don't cross my legs and I'll let out a belch in the middle of a bar without a care. It drives women nuts, for some reason. I've only had a handful of men ever have a problem with it. The intricacies of my own physical sex have always astounded me, because I've never been able to fit in with them. XD

All in all, I've stopped trying to explain myself to people unless I genuinely want to know them too. I'm just being hyper and optimistic and wacky and whatever else hits me at the moment.

I'm still surrounded and thriving off chaos. I'm still encompassed and happy and embodying the element I feel as if I'm an integral being of, and that's always been how I've been demon, so I guess it still fits, even if I don't always ponder on it anymore.

Simim: Rainbow poop at your disservice.
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2013-03-28 11:36
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Post: #10
Re: not being a "good person"
simim23 Wrote:It drives women nuts, for some reason. I've only had a handful of men ever have a problem with it. The intricacies of my own physical sex have always astounded me, because I've never been able to fit in with them. XD

I've noticed that with most women too! For some reason, not wearing dresses and heels, makeup and acting like a slut tends to be seen as 'odd' in American society. And I'm right there with you sim, I simply don't understand human female stuff at all!

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2013-03-28 14:01
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