Hide background
READ THIS!

Welcome to the Otherkinphenomena forum.

You really have to follow these instructions! Instructions will update as you progress.

If you wish to post on, or access most of the content of our forum and our community, please click here to register first, then follow the instructions below. If you have already registered, please log in, in the above "Hello There, Guest!" box.

Thanks for understanding and see you around.



Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
nature of the universe
Terro
Member is Offline
Gymnastics instructor and lifeguard
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,028
Points: 5340.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick 

Post: #1
nature of the universe
I know, pretty daunting title there, eh?

On a smaller scale though, many of us have past life memories or beliefs that we were able to use magic, strange supernatural abilities or even tricks farther and wider than seen in Japanese cartoon shows. Yet in this world, this is just not really possible (save the fluffy claims of people throwing fireballs and shapeshifting into giant 8 ft tall killer wolves, if that were possible throughout Human history, it'd be a lot more common, and if so many people on the internet could do it, then it'd be on youtube by now).

My question is why, and my theory is as follows: Each universe and plane is based on a different set of laws that bind everything contained therein. This universe has strict laws of science and physics as we have perceived them so far. We refer to things that are metaphysical as being so because they don't fit into the laws of existence in this universe. Metaphysical exists because we can think and perceive of what may be slightly outside these laws as a result of our minds not being physical, just the brain that houses it.

Other planes of existence on the other hand are not written in such a way, let's say for instance that willpower is a stronger force there, or maybe the other laws are not as strict and therefore magic and the transfer of energy, let alone the rate of energy required for certain actions, are entirely different.

The other side of the coin are the stories of beings that have come here and done phenomenal miracles, most namely being Angels. I find this to be as a result of Angels being outside this universe and designed to build and maintain it as well as others. Similarly to this forum, they basically have admin powers. I as an admin are outside most of the "laws" the govern the construction of the forum, I can edit your posts, delete them if I wish, view your information, move your topics or split them and even write in Taiaka's signature. What if Angels were similar, their purpose makes them able to alter things in this universe and thus when they are here, they can perform amazing feats.

So what are your thoughts on the matter?

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-04-28 14:48
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Seraphyna
Member is Offline
Administrator
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,891
Points: 9832.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick tick tick tick 

Post: #2
Re: nature of the universe
I definitely agree. I believe that this veil people speak of here that keeps us all magic free and unable to shift is there for a reason and won't come down until the universe as we know it ends. To me, this realm of existance is meant for all beings to learn and grow...you can't do that if you have all the abilities that you had in your natural form on your home plane...so earth is subject to natural laws, while other planes and realms are not. Being "bound" into human form limits us all because humans are subject to a slew of sciences that limit magic and all its implications.

[Image: seraphyna11_zps47e1e313.png]
"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost."-Tolkien
"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."-Poe
2008-04-28 16:01
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Terro
Member is Offline
Gymnastics instructor and lifeguard
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,028
Points: 5340.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick 

Post: #3
Re: nature of the universe
I don't think there's a veil at all... I think it's just plain physics. Everything here is bound by the same laws of physics, and many people are not just incarnated as Human, how many therians are there out there, did they suddenly have mystical powers as well?

In other dimensions there are physics as well... just different laws of physics.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-04-28 16:07
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Seraphyna
Member is Offline
Administrator
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,891
Points: 9832.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick tick tick tick 

Post: #4
Re: nature of the universe
Natural science here sets up a wall between the realm of the physical and the realm of magic/energy/the astral that functions something like a plasma membrane...it lets choice bits through, but blocks the rest...so I think that's what "the veil" is...not some supernatural mumbo jumbo, but a division that is created due to the physical laws that bind this world.

[Image: seraphyna11_zps47e1e313.png]
"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost."-Tolkien
"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."-Poe
2008-04-28 17:13
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Terro
Member is Offline
Gymnastics instructor and lifeguard
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,028
Points: 5340.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick 

Post: #5
Re: nature of the universe
that is one way of looking at it.

I don't see that there is a realm of magic and energy at all attached to this universe. In other universes there may be a different set of laws governing energy and it's use and therefore make it easier or harder to do energy manipulation and magic, but here there is no separate realm. The astral is just a vibrational energy difference that I believe is based off the metaphysical nature of the mind and the collective unconscious. I also think that the Astral is the stepping stone towards traveling out of this universe. A soul would be released from a body post mortem, and would travel through the astral to whatever comes next.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-04-28 17:52
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Taiaka
Member is Offline
Eager beaver
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 291
Points: 1625.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #6
Re: nature of the universe
I completely understand your point, Terro, but unfortunately I disagree with you theory. (big surprise there, right? ^.^)

I use magic here in this universe and I can easily chalk it all up to psychological factors like the placebo effect. If I believe a feather is embued with a charm that will make me more attractive to the opposite sex, my own belief will raise my comfidence level, I will put bonified faith in its conscious workings. It doesn't matter if its all psychosomatic - the placebo IS the magic. On the other side of the coin, if I believe a feather is embued with a charm that will make my eyes change color, I know deep down inside that such a feat is impossible. Not only do the laws of physics apply, but so do the laws of nature. And my subconscious, no matter how much I believe or wish and will, knows the rules too. Are these self-imposed limitations? No, not really. Science is real. I know why I have blue eyes. A charmed feather will not change my genetic code.

But I think its unfair to claim angels as the only beings that have worked 'miracles' in this universe. Granted you may have been just using them as an example of your point, so I'm not going to burn anyone at the stake just yet. Angels (and demons, though to a lesser extent) denote the belief in the divine- not neccessarily God, but the idea of divinity in general. They are to do the will of benevolence. This is relative to the human animal- good and evil should begin as concepts. But the idea of angels comes from the thoughts and faiths of this universe and I'd think they'd be held to the same checks and balances. I do not think that angels have any more 'power' or mysticism than any other kin.

Amazing feats in this universe are just that, amazing. But I do not think they are limited to just celestial entities. I'm not being cynical when I say that many miracles that were performed in ancient times can be completely explained by science. And I'm only being realistic when I say that man gave the term 'miracle' and attached it to beings of light they called 'angels'. This is the same way when something miraclulously awful happens they say it is the work of the devil.

Look at the non-christian version of the Muse or the non-Islamic version of the Djinn. Both have bent the rules.

To tell you the truth though, I really can't wrap my mind around the possibility of there being multiple universes...universi....whatever. The term itself, perfixed by uni-, denotes that there can be only one....like the Highlander. I truly believe that universal laws are just that, universal. But who's to say that with the ever expansion of our universe, that the laws of physics are static? That would only make sense if our universe was static. Life, death and rebirth are extenuating circumstances. Combine that with the belief in souls and you have yourself a whole other set of rules. We have no idea what happens to our souls (if we even have souls...though I believe we do). Perhaps a conscious collective on another world has boosted the 'power' of willpower because there are more minds drawn to a similar belief? I think the possibilities are limitless.

-Tai

"Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity." -Arthur Schopenhauer


[Image: smokersigwt8.jpg]
2008-04-28 18:57
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Terro
Member is Offline
Gymnastics instructor and lifeguard
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,028
Points: 5340.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick 

Post: #7
Re: nature of the universe
Understood Taiaka. I did use Angels as just one example, it's what I see as the most common example brought up with me (mostly to ask why an Angel doesn't believe in magic but believes in many Angelic interactions with man).

As far as magic, I am not trying to say it doesn't exist, but rather that it requires a lot of will and a lot of skill and concentration to do a very small thing, yet many remember in past lives being able to easily do amazing feats of magical proficiency and energy manipulation.

As far as a universe, think of it as a plane of existence. I believe all are connected, but are separate entities entirely, the most common idea is the believe that souls transcend from this existence into the next "world" or "plane," a location that is not only removed like the Astral planes, but fully and totally separate.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-04-28 19:05
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Nic
Member is Offline
Copy cat
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 170
Points: 910.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #8
Re: nature of the universe
To play the other side, talking about the "laws of science" is somewhat misleading, as many of them aren't actually verified laws that cannot be broken, merely theories. Even more (such as the improbability of p-shifting) are simply a case of not-enough-whatever (there is no law that states it can't be done, just common sense that the energy required is too massive to be accomplished by a human being).

However, all that is not to say that there aren't things that we can't fight. Gravity may be a theory, after all, but I still haven't managed to lift myself an inch off any surface.

I think my point is that talking about the laws of existence is not quite the right terminology. More like the probables of existence, especially since modern physics tends to be ripping up "established" laws right and left... -shrug-

And should it be that we shall never meet again,
Know that I will always keep you in my heart,
And I will search for you in that time beyond time
Until we do meet again, and you will know
That love and family are the miracles of the world.
2008-04-29 6:51
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Terro
Member is Offline
Gymnastics instructor and lifeguard
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,028
Points: 5340.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick 

Post: #9
Re: nature of the universe
true enough, Nic. Though whatever we have discovered does not seem to be the actual laws, I do believe the laws are out there, we just haven't fully charted and figured them as of yet.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-04-29 14:31
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Taiaka
Member is Offline
Eager beaver
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 291
Points: 1625.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #10
Re: nature of the universe
Another factor may be that humans can be limited in their way of establishing these laws and thoeries. Science is real but we are working with a strict set of elements (see Periodic Table). I think its perfectly acceptable to think that other worlds, literally and figuatively, may possess different elements that have shapred both their technology and their philosophy. Magic may be something as easily explained as an element or chemical composition that we cannot even fathom on earth.

Just a thought.

-Tai

"Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity." -Arthur Schopenhauer


[Image: smokersigwt8.jpg]
2008-04-29 18:42
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)