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Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
Terro
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Post: #1
Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
Hey everybody, reading around the communities over the years, I've come across many things that many would consider "fluffy" or otherwise said, false and indicative of mis-perception or mis-informed conclusions.

Long story short, let's get down to brass tacks on some of these claims that we see all over. Is it valid? Is it possible? Is it ridiculous, or once people start supporting this should you just close out of your browser and go somewhere sane?

Wanted to see what you guys think, openly and completely on some of these topics:

Physical Shapeshifting: Ranging from small things like increased healing or medicinal practices to re-build tissue or the grandiose claims we see many people claim every time another "Underworld" movie made.

Energy Scanning over the Internet or other non-personal medium: Those that claim to be able to read others regardless of knowledge of the person or even knowledge of where they are.

The Veil: I was tempted to leave this out as it balances on the razor edge between accepted and fluff depending on where you go to find out.

The Astral Plane(s): Some would find this to be a construct of the collective unconscious, some would find it to be ridiculous, some even claim to have family and relationships actively through the Astral and speak it as interchangibly as legal or flesh and blood family, friends and partners.

If you guys think of more, please post and discuss as we go.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-02-28 20:24
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Deros
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Post: #2
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
Physical Shapeshifting (aka physical manifestation of energy manipulation): Extremely difficult in this plane. I, personally, haven't gotten close, and doubt that almost anyone else could

Cross-distance scan: I see it as possible

The Veil: I have my own individual opinion on this

The Astral Plane: I've never managed to go, so I have a healthy amount of doubt on the subject

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I would have learned a lot from life if I hadn't spent most of my time being educated.
2008-02-28 20:31
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Xanthus
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Post: #3
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
  • Physical Shapeshifting
    Bunk, never been found to be anything more than nonsense or cultural artifact, in any study ever done, that I've ever heard of.
    However, I wouldn't lump in all 'healing' or any physical manifestation effect with this. There have been many studies done on things like Reiki and TK, and the results have been mixed enough to at least balance on 'inconclusive'.[/*:m]
  • Energy Scanning over the Internet or other non-personal medium
    Look into "Remote Viewing" this is all but a proven fact at this point. I have no trouble believing this at all.[/*:m]
  • The Veil
    Fiction - imo.[/*:m]
  • The Astral Plane(s)
    Pretty well-accepted canon ni many belief systems. To call it fluff would be pretty short-sighted.[/*:m][/list:u]

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2008-02-28 20:33
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Chris
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Post: #4
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
Deros Wrote:The Veil: I have my own individual opinion on this

ooh, I'd like to hear about it.
2008-02-28 20:34
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Deros
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Post: #5
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
Quote:In my opinion, it's the amount of atmospheric energy in this world. It may get far enough for energy manipulation to be able to be used. Then again- a much more difficult point to reach- it may get to the point where spirit is more substantial than the physical. In that case, people would revert to whatever forms their spirits happen to be. Of course, even then otherkin may not turn right away or at all. Even with the cases of phantom limbs, the main structure fits overall within the human body. So you'd get changes, yes, but they'd be similar to half-scaled dragon anthromorphs. (My theory)

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2008-02-28 20:36
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Selcar
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Post: #6
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
Physical Shapeshifting: not something I generally bother to argue, aside from making the point that it seems like it would be incredibly painful.

Long distance energy scanning: I believe in this to a degree. I think you do need to be linked up to a person in some manner - even if that is an object with represents the person - a touch of chaos magic in there based off of connecting to gods/etc with a symbol that represents that being. Aside from having a connection and focus, I do not see why it would be too much different from reading someone in the same room. That being said, there's a lot that claim to be able to do this that I find questionable.

The Veil: I stay out of it. It's always a pointless thing to argue over what it is, what it's purpose is, etc.

I believe in the Astral Plane, but I also believe that a lot of people out there are mistaken over it. One of those things in my mind that once was a solid concept, but has been brought down by the connotations misinformed people place on it, etc.

Personally, I like to bring forward objective and logical arguments against things I find fluffy, or with the option of being fluffy. I would like to think that my sense over what is questionable is rather good - because I used to be part of the problem. I was young to the concept of otherkin and it's easy to get sucked into the wanting to feel special thing, be manipulated, etc. But then I met Archer who basically used a logic bat to my head which started the slow process of me questioning myself and dropping away from the otherkin community - until I found the offline otherkin community nearby me, regrew some trust in the community, and poof.

"Justice, like lightning, should appear, to few men's ruin but to all men's fear."

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2008-02-28 20:37
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Terro
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Post: #7
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
my stance on physical shapeshifting is from a physics point of view. The spontaneous creation of matter requires a lot of energy and is a complex process, I don't believe it possible for an individual to create specific tissue, change tissue and reorganize major systems of the body while maintaining a state of medical living.

Energy Scans over long distance, on those I believe it possible if you have gotten to know the person well over that distance. When people claim they can without knowing me at all, even from my posts on a forum or im conversations, I raise an eyebrow. I have had three individuals who have attempted this to prove me wrong, and came up with absolutely nothing valid. I also find that many who do believe it have been so gullible as to accept information that is completely new and alien to them, claiming that the scanner was so good they found information never even thought of before by the one being scanned.

The Veil: I do not believe in the Veil, but again that is a topic all of itself.

The Astral Plane(s): I find it very difficult to have an OBE, but I do believe I have done them, and while I believe in the Astral Planes, I believe them to be constructed much out of the collective unconscious and very, very easily transmutable by the imagination and beliefs of the traveler, thus I put very little stock in it.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-02-28 20:38
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Xanthus
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Post: #8
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
I'll add one:

*People who have extremely detailed memories and information about their past lives, incarnations, other worlds, etc.

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2008-02-28 20:39
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Terro
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Post: #9
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
That is a good one, I'll add another on top of that:

We must all prepare to band together as "greater than Human beings" to save the world from the imminent destruction caused by (insert alien invasion, religious Apocalypse, pollution or Oprah)

On Xanthus', People with extremely detailed memories I do on a case by case basis, some are just very small with excessive detail, like when I describe my appearance, I get into detail about a lot of the things, however for those that have their entire life story down, often times I find them to be very highly questionable. There is also the claims of, "Does anyone remember me?" These inquiries have no other words than that and people come up with these long stories about far off worlds and some such, I half heartedly want to post the same question and then go, "wow, I was talking about over the last twenty years, I'm not from any other dimension, I'm from New Jersey."
(Even though I'm sure there are those that believe New Jersey is an alternate dimension)

For those with the imminent destruction theories, I believe if this world is in danger, the members of the Human race who will be stepping up are the members of the Human race. Not saying we are separate, but we do what we think is right, not because of who we believe we might have been at one point or another.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-02-28 20:47
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Elvanos
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Post: #10
Re: Those questionable claims, and what we think of them
Physical Shapeshifting (aka physical manifestation of energy manipulation): Dunno... sounds pretty impossible at this moment. But who knows... maybe one day... <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: -->

Cross-distance scan: I have some pretty good personal experience with it... I hold the opinion, that it IS a real thing and REALLY does work.

The Veil: Erm... not quite sure about this one... sure I like the idea of existance of some membrane, that falls soon (2012 anyone? <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> )... but hey... who DOESNT like at least something on that idea? <!-- s:mrgreen: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /><!-- s:mrgreen: --> But yea... no proof so far... so I just say, that I like the idea, but dont hold on to it...

The Astral Plane: Well... lets just say I believe my phantom libms have to be somewhere. <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: -->

Terro Wrote:Long distance energy scanning: I believe in this to a degree. I think you do need to be linked up to a person in some manner - even if that is an object with represents the person - a touch of chaos magic in there based off of connecting to gods/etc with a symbol that represents that being. Aside from having a connection and focus, I do not see why it would be too much different from reading someone in the same room. That being said, there's a lot that claim to be able to do this that I find questionable.

Well unlike you I have quite good and valid experiences with this kind of a stuff.
2008-02-28 20:51
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