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Theorum of Pandora
Tzolkin
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Post: #1
Theorum of Pandora
I still don't know if I should post this. After some of the things I've seen here, it could open one hell of a can of worms. But I'm insane anyway, so let's roll the dice and see what kind of chaos results. (I apologize in advance for any toes I unwittingly step on before they can read the entire concept) <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->

Okay, so I was pondering the meaning of life... again. And suddenly this came to mind. I was raised evangelical christian, and they would always say, how great it would be in heaven. And that we would just do nothing but sing and worship the lord for ever and ever and never get tired of it and blah blah blah... wait... what's supposed to be -Paradise?- After that I went on an entirely different derailed freight train of a thought. What if.. just what if, the entire human mythos is just an inverse reflection of the truth? What if we all just got our religion, myths, ad infinitum from something akin to reflections in a pond?

Could up, actually be down, and vice versa? It would make sense, if there really was a power-crazed entity of some sort vying for absolute power and control over their own personal domain, complete with fearful beings willing to grovel in awe and terror at your feet simply because they have no freaking clue what's going on. Yes, the simplest way to secure that sort of domain is to simply insert self into the mythos exactly where the creator of everything should be. And then declare everything the original creator stood for is ooooh so eeevil and it must be destroyed!!!!111!! *ahem*

(Yes this is fun to write. It's 3AM, and I have too much caffeine. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't still say this while more sane. It just means I wouldn't be as dramatic while doing it.)

Okay, so we have a god who isn't god but says he is because he wants to be god. Got it? Good. How'd that happen, one might ask. I could have started something like the obscure, perhaps mormon-based mythology (? I think that was the religion tag), where the creator and all the other entities were in paradise, and a system of free will was being set up. That was The Plan, after all. You could end up being closer to the creator than ever possible before or end up somewhere astray by your own choosing. So, well, one guy (or more) doesn't like this, wants to use the instant gratification ploy (7 deadlies, anyone?) and wants to keep paradise forever with no working to better oneself, or growing, and all that. So he says, 'all you who follows me and declares me god will never have to leave paradise, but you will never have free will either'. Some fell for this, obviously... but that's not the fun part. That's just an idea on how it could start.

In my mind's eye, the universe is composed of a form of polarization of the Void created by conscious will. The rudimentary element of this is assumed to be the sphere, and for now I think of its driving force as a spiral, similar to a helix. So, if you have a universe primarily influenced by conscious will brought into being by being split off from the creator, who is of course also the Void as well as the creator of all, then interesting things can happen. One of them I've theorized is that space can become modularized into different planes/dimensions/universes/paradigms/whatever.. like little grids where entities have set up shop. The more who share the same vision on their own choice and are in said grid, the more vivid and diverse the realm becomes.

This is where we meet up with mister I wanna be god again. In the event an entity does something which makes a surrender of power, or an exchange of will for something else, they basically are able to rule over it to an unparalleled extent. Given, in every system like this, there are always loopholes, little cracks and imperfections in every crystal. I think it is this way by design. Nothing is perfect, for if it was it would simply cease to be. Not even the entity(s) who created such grids can attain perfection without destroying themselves. Which is not actually being destroyed but rather, more like being reforged. Back on topic..

Since this hierarchical order is set into place, it forms less of a realm, and more of a box. It has certain rules, which dictate the possible and not probable, whereas on the tiniest level, there is still infinite possibility. Entities in the box exchange power to varying degrees to whomever created the box, and many find it hard to get out again because of the inhibitions that sets up.

So what I'm getting at here with this theory is we have a possible Pandora's Box scenario in such conditions, except instead of horrors coming out, things get sucked into the place where the horrors are present. It happens as such, that one receives an offer of an amazing gift, everything you could want, supposedly with no work involved. But it's too good to be true and the gift itself bears a nasty fruit. But, there is a catch.. Always a catch. There is a way out, something which waxes and wanes in its apparentness. The Mayans called it a bridge, others call it a tree, and still others call it a tunnel. Whatever it is to you, this is where the only good thing which came from Pandora lies... hope.

I'm sure most people have heard the big savior stories and such. I don't buy that. I think they put way to much emphasis on the dying part. It's not about accepting a savior and that's the end of it, I don't think. It sounds to much like the gift that made the mess to begin with, so there must be a journey involved. And that's the final clause of my opinion, which has likely offended just about everyone with remotely thin skin. And for that I apologize. But my opinion is still my opinion.

My philosophy, believe whatever you like, however you like. When it comes down to it, the only one who can determine your absolute destiny is you.

Thanks for putting up with me,
--Tzolkin

~Tzolkin
2008-04-03 8:11
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Post: #2
Re: Theorum of Pandora
The whole thing sounds a lil like an episode of Star Trek to me lol.
Some of what you said makes sense and some of it I think is just an honest fear of having to take faith in the perfection of God, (which is very hard) there are no loopholes or cracks everything actually does fit together rather well.
I like the idea of the sphere and the spiral very physics oriented, and the being reforged very big-bang meets God-energy. If we look at everything metaphorically we can look at all of this and wonder why and how and maybe it is more thoughtful and interresting to look at the journey than the dying part, but you know what the whole stake in faith is? Actually having to believe in something that isn't what you'd have thought or designed, something larger than yourself it might not be as fun as life is a journey and you have to live it, but if you look at the patterns in this world you'll see (I'm gonna sound like the hippy in SLC punk now) even choas has an order it's not just chaos its order chaos order chaos and in that lies part of what perfection is. (I hope this wasn't too tangential to what you said and if it seems too biased that's probably because I am)
2008-04-03 13:43
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Tzolkin
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Post: #3
Re: Theorum of Pandora
I'm gonna assume you're expressing your opinion as well. Trust me, it did not come from Star Trek. I don't watch a lot of TV.

This is not something I want to be analyzed over, or preached to about, and I don't really want to believe someone is doing so. n_n;

On the other hand, if god is perfect, then applied to my theory he doesn't exist. But if he is both perfect and imperfect, then then we have a superposition which is exactly what I was getting at. Nothing and everything, at the same time. Superposition is a state beyond being all that is, because it's all the potential of all that is as well, whether good or bad.

I'm not afraid to take faith in anything. I just don't particularly want to do so blindly, as in my opinion that contradicts the entire purpose of active faith. I think faith is an act of seeking rather than following. If you are not seeking, you're not going anywhere, in my opinion.

Also, nowhere did I mention that the true creator's plan had any cracks or loopholes. No, actually I think his design is what creates the cracks and imperfections in the constructs of other beings. There is always an 'if' clause, because on that root level free will exists always. Things decay, and cycle, for good reason. They would get stale if they didn't. I've found what I'm trying to explain is as hard to explain as it is to understand. There's a lot of collective dynamics involved, so no, nothing is always as one wants it, even if on the rudimentary level everything could be (if you're all by your lonesome in 'outer darkness', that is.)

And as I said, in all this my philosophy is essentially to not give up your right to choose. If we were not supposed to have free will, it would not have been given to us to begin with. But anyway.. not trying to ruffle feathers or anything. Just my take on things. Personal belief, and all that.

~Tzolkin
2008-04-04 0:16
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Tzolkin
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Post: #4
Re: Theorum of Pandora
Actually, from the mindset I'm in, I would be inclined to ask that if this topic looks like it could end up a debate, that the mods would please just delete it. I don't have the energy to be on the defensive about something personal like this. <!-- sTongue --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- sTongue -->

~Tzolkin
2008-04-04 0:23
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Post: #5
Re: Theorum of Pandora
Actually, Tzolkin, i tend to agree with you overall. I dont beleive things are anywhere close to as they seem, paticularly currently, i DO beleive that the religions overall have been manipulated and rigged for the masses to be controlled by, and i Do think that IF, big IF, there is any god or supreme beings or related/similar, they are generally out for thier own power gain. i think thats what ya meant overall, isnt it? or am i out to lunch as i usually am? Tongue
2008-04-04 3:05
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Tzolkin
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Post: #6
Re: Theorum of Pandora
I think it could be interpreted a number of ways and still be accurate. That's not something most people think about, but I do think that at least some concepts lend themselves to interpretation without losing sight of the core.

My personal take on it is that there is a supreme being, a creator, but it is so unfathomable it doesn't even make sense to raise the question of whether it exists or not, or in what condition. And those deities in a pantheon who are out for power over others are not to be confused with the creator, though in all technicality, whether they are is both yes and no.

In short this concept and its supporting mythos is one which means everything and nothing at the same time... such is the nature of the multiverse it describes. I think we're all creators as well since we are of the creator and have the capacity to create or destroy, whichever would be chosen. It doesn't matter which way you go since all paths lead back to the creator. The direction just decides whether you'll become a creator yourself, or not.

That's my take on things, at least.

~Tzolkin
2008-04-04 21:31
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Post: #7
Re: Theorum of Pandora
Tzolkin Wrote:Actually, from the mindset I'm in, I would be inclined to ask that if this topic looks like it could end up a debate, that the mods would please just delete it. I don't have the energy to be on the defensive about something personal like this. <!-- sTongue --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- sTongue -->

And this mod would reply "think before you post". If you post something that you think will upset yourself, the way around it is to not post it, rather than posting it and then asking to be nannied after the event.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

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2008-04-07 13:45
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Post: #8
Re: Theorum of Pandora
Would you like me to Lock this topic or really just delete it (IMO = I prefer the: ‘let it snowball’ option)?

It’s up to you, I’ll respect those wishes but I personally don’t feel there is anything here that deserves exile. It’s an interesting theory and I do find myself interested in some of its aspects (which I’d like to further comment on given it’s still available to do so).

No toes appear stepped on and there’s nothing wrong with sharing a new (or newly altered) concept.

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2008-04-07 19:13
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Post: #9
Re: Theorum of Pandora
nothing wrong with theories, besides this one seems pretty sensible.

If you had stated that this was the order of the universe and absolutely nothing else exists... then it'd be a bit funny, but this strikes as pretty interesting.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-04-07 20:00
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Tzolkin
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Post: #10
Re: Theorum of Pandora
Archer Wrote:And this mod would reply "think before you post". If you post something that you think will upset yourself, the way around it is to not post it, rather than posting it and then asking to be nannied after the event.
It was more of an 'I don't want to cause any trouble' tactic than anything else. I wrote the post in a bizarre mood, then realized how much potential for trouble it might have. The last thing I want is to start a flame war over a personal theory/belief system which pretty much just fell on my head out of nowhere.

@chaitea & Terro: Really, if no-one feels it would cause a tremendous argument, I'd like to 'let it snowball' as well, as chaitea put it. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression about my feeling of posting it; I felt more concerned than regret for posting.

~Tzolkin
2008-04-08 1:32
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