Laiko Su Katara Wrote:This is a thread I will post in every otherkin site iam member in.
So...copy and paste ninja! ;D
I'll copy-pasta my reply to wherever I see this post then.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:There are many out there claiming to have a "scientific" view on otherkin.
On another forum ive seen a thread about Science versus Spirituality where many said that the both cant be mixed togheter.
For every person that states that science and spirituality can not be mixxed, there is another person stating that the two are absultely able to be mixxed.
I for one am a person that the two are by far not opposing points and that treating them as two opposites is like treating "food" and "drink" as two opposites.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:So how can you then have a scientific view on otherkin?
You cant, its impossible since otherkin is spiritual and its all about spiritualism when it come to the subject.
It's absolutely possible to have a scientific view on otherkin. There are more than spiritual beliefs involved. To state that you "can not" have a scientific view is also a little rude. Who are you to tell the world what they can and can not think?
I think that a part of what's bothering you here is that you're only looking at science as a certain group of things that science does.
As measuring, weighing, experementing and proving physical properties of physical things. Yes that science, but that's only one fraction of what science is.
The scientific approach is to present a hypothesis (I think I'm otherkin), gathering all available information even that which speaks against the hypothesis being true (looking into psychology, meditation, trying to work out what you "really" believe, examining past life memories trying to discern if they're true by comparing them with what is known on the place/time/etc where they originate, this means trying to debunk them as much as you try to prove them, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,), examining all that information and trying to discern whether your hypothesis is more supported or debunked and coming to a conclusion of whether or not you're going to take that hypothesis and treat it as a "theory" and applying it to yourself.
In other words.
To think it through, examine it, consider alternative explanations, is all scientific in nature and does not reduce the spiritual value.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:Then all this snick-snack about fluffers I see everywhere, no matter what forum I go to there's (almost always) a non-fluff policy.
.. well yes.
Because fluff is demeaning to the rest of the community.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:What is fluff?
*If you are laidback and talk new-age.
*If you bring people hope by telling legends and myths or help them "heal" be astral travel or spells.
*If you identify yourself with something you cant verify.
Actually, none of that is "fluff". I completely disagree with your presented definition.
When I use the word fluff I mean the following:
Roleplaying. Presenting fiction as fact. Presenting hypothesis as fact. Refusing to consider alternative explanations. Refusing to consider that people who's opinions differ from yours may have opinions that are as valid as your. Systematically refusing to accept proven reality.
But more than all of that, what fluff is, is refusing to thing, refusing to question, and lacking any and all rational, reasonable explanations for anything one has to say.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:Once again, you can never, ever, ever prove yourself to be otherkin.
You cant prove your a dragon by breathing fire or prove yourself to be vampire by drinking blood.
You can never prove you're otherkin, but you can think things through. You can accept that because you can't prove it you can't know, ever, for 100% sure, that it's not just a psychological mechanism you've constructed for yourself... i.e. It'll always be a matter of belief, not fact.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:In most cases people call someone fluff because they have never heard of that particular kintype or condition.
I will now present some example's of what I mean, I wont use any real usernames (not on purpose at least, I make up some new names here).
In most cases, that I've seen, it's not because people haven't heard of that particular kintype. I myself am asked repeatedly what my kintype is and I explain it to the best of my ability at every turn and I've never been called fluffy that I am aware of.
I don't call people fluffy based on what their kintype is but how they present themselves as persons.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:Example 1-2.
WolfMan - Hi all, you can call me WolfMan and iam a werewolf because I identify myself with wolfs and one night at fullmoon it felt like I was going to change into a wolf.
UberModMan - O...k.
TwilightFanzor - What a fraud...
*WolfMan banned or warned for being fluff*
Example 2-2.
WolfMan - Hi all, you can call me WolfMan and iam a werewolf.
UberModMan - Oh, nice to meet you.
TwilightFanzor - Hi and welcome. <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s
-->
...so...the few words and the less description you put out the more welcome you are?
Here's a classic.
Example 1.
LolipopMan - Hi all, I have theory that theres a vortex in space where all souls may have been created.
HaxxorDragon - I have never seen this in my astral travels.
L0L - I dont believe in it.
AngelSama - We all know all souls were created by the creation god.
Kalamari - *Quote LolipopMan* I have given it some thought and that may be possible.
HaxxorDragon - *Quote Kalamari* Did I not tell you that I havent seen it on my astral travels? I dont think its possible...
It's not what you say but how you say it.
I'm entitled to my own beliefs and disbeliefs, as you are entitled to your beliefs and disbeliefs. If you mean to imply that one isn't allowed to state one's disbelief, only belief, and that one should refrain from stating known, documented facts, when they do not align with someone's beliefs, then how exactly do you propose that people learn and grow?
How are people supposed to learn and grow and even become certain and solid in their beliefs if we're supposed to treat them as delicate flowers that can not be exposed even to the words "I don't agree", let alone the question "why"?
When people disagree with you it's not because they're horrible people who don't like you and are picking on you, it's because their opinions and experiences differ from yours in one way or another, frequently for a good reason, and you're discounting their beliefs, their opinions, their experiences, their reasons and more when you reduce these things to personal attacks.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:Astral travel...
You can ask 10 different peps who claim to be able to astral travel and get 10 different descriptions.
People can just throw out alot of things claiming to be sights from astral traveling and then influence the masses who cannot astral travel and see for themself.
And yet others who question these people give those who can not see for themselves a chance to consider the possibility that the person who is making these claims isn't exactly the most knowledgeable person in the world.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:With other words...whole communities may be stupified from various non-verified claims.
Which is why skepticism is good.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:Then I see all these attacks between kintypes.
I have seen dragons hating starseeds, angels hating vampires and the list going on and on and on...
I, personally, have had bad experiences with certain groups of otherkin. I, personally, have good reason to remain skeptical of these people. Sometimes, when people speak out against a group, there are experiences and good reasons for doing so.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:My point is...the otherkin community is no different from the human community.
That is because we're all human.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:There are good mods and bad mods the same way as there are good cops and bad cops, good admins and bad admins the same way as there are good politicans and bad politicans and finally there are good members and bad members the same way as there are nice people and bad people.
That is because we're all human.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:I choose to be the same kind of person both online and real life; the rebell who fight for others and for change.
I'm the same person on and off the computer myself as well. I'm a nice guy. I'm just a nice guy with standards.
And I do "fight for change". I'm politically aware and active. I am a member of support groups for people who are truly oppressed in this world, in this reality.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:The otherkin community is no different from the human community, we claim ourself to be free from racism, nazism, sexism and homophobia but we have only exchanged one kind of intolerance to another.
We do not make any such claim. At least I've never seen any otherkin community make that claim. I've seen the rules include a "we will not tolerate" sort of a clause but no community with half a brain would claim to be perfectly free of these things.
We're all human!
We're flawed!
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:People in real life hunt terrorists and many get islamophobic the same way as otherkin communities hunt fluffers and many confused possible otherkin have paid the price.
No! This right here, is a plain out lie. And more than that, it's offensive!
In otherkin communities, those that are perceived as fluffy are questioned, challenged, and occasionally joked about. That is absolutely NOTHING compared to the brutality inflicted on people who are truly oppressed off in the real world.
It is an insult against every Transgendered/Transsexual person who has been murdered by bigots to equate the "suffering" of otherkin to theirs.
It is an insult to every innocent person who looks to be of Arabic descent and has been openly abused physically, verbally and more, in retribution for 9/11, to equate their suffering to that of "otherkin" who're called out on fluff.
It is an insult to every gay child that's been beaten by their own religious parents simply for being gay to compare "being banned for fluff" with that.
.. And so on and so forth..
Being called out on fluff, being banned for fluff, being questioned and challenged, being disbelieved and even being scoffed is Nothing in comparison to real hunting, oppression, and systematic bigotry and to imply it is more than an insult to every one who is truly oppressed.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:If you, the otherkin, are older than most human souls, blessed with wisdom from past lifes and claim yourself to be different, how can you then be so human in your behavior?
Because we are all human in this life.
We are otherkin, yes. But that doesn't have to mean that "human souls" are younger, less wise, or in any way lesser at all than ours.
To suggest that we are "older, wiser, greater," is big headed.
We aren't better than other people, just a little different.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:I monitor several otherkin sites, I have seen them degenerate as the community become more and more close-minded.
With this article I hope to change the course a bit and make people to see the truth on these sites and make the other communities avoid these sites mistakes.
Asking questions =/= Closed minded.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:All I ask for is tolerance, I show tolerence, I give people a chance...
I want others to do it too.
Tolerance is one thing, blind acceptance of everything anyone has to say, is something completely different.
You yourself pointed out the problem with blind acceptance in your "person talking about astral things" example.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:I believe iam very on edge with this post and it may be classed as grilling, flame or flamebaiting.
But then I have just proven my point...
No flaiming here. Just my honest reply.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:Thank you for reading this and I hope you understand the content and the message I want to bring you.
No thanks necessary. I'm all for people expressing their thoughts on subjects.
Laiko Su Katara Wrote:Feel free to discuss the content, that way we could understand each other better.
Hope in reading what I have to say that you'll better understand where I'm coming from.