The Logistics of Flying

This question came to me as I was drawing a sketch of an angel. I couldn't, for the life of me, figure out how to attach the wing to the back of the figure. I felt compelled to add a whole knot of muscle to feel confident that the wing would not rip off if my drawing encounters wind resistance. It got me thinking about you winged kin folk out there. Lift to weight ratios, muscle structure...How long your wings would have to be to be able to lift a 100lb's...150lbs...How much does a dragon weigh? Is there something special about the structure of an angel's wing? Do normal physics apply?

Thoughts!

Tai

Physics? what's that?

With all honesty, though, it has been noted that dragons tend to have more energy than many other kin types. As long as they had a wingspan wide enough to justify flying in their mind's eye, the rest might just take care of itself. I don't really know all that much about the technical parts of it. It's kinda like with my digestive tract. I can NOT think about it, and it will still work.

For some kintypes, it's more a matter of wings as optional decoration than for actual use as appendages for flight. Disguised (or not so disguised) levitation is the name of the game for some.

I always thought along those lines myself Kreyas. They aren't a necessity but a symbol perhaps or just decorations.

*nods* Wings placed where common Angel artwork places it in the last few hundred years aren't really well places for humanoid flight. Lower on the back, under the ribs seems to be a better place, in reference to being able to get the body to an angle to fly at, and being able to support the structures. That being said, if you want to take Angel perceptions at their word (and I have found people's wings are there), it makes me think that wherever and whatever they were, something was different. Either physics were different, or their flight wasn't powered under the same concepts, like Kreyas mention, it could be levitation of another source disguised by wings, or perhaps the bodies weren't physical. Different basis for organic life, if such, or atmosphere perhaps.

I also remember hearing once about how ridiculous wingspan would need to be for a human to fly, but can't remember the details, or where from for the life of me.

That being said, I know some types of Celestials that the wings (real or not) here tend to reflect their status originally.

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For humanoids: Longer torso would be needed. The most logical (based off earth flight models) is actually for the wings to be superior to the arms, rather than inferior. This is due in part because of the desire for a keel bone as muscle attachment, And that any lower down you have nowhere for large muscles to attach (abdomen) and any attempt would probably inhibit rib cage, and thus lung, expansion.

That said, aren't angels supposed to be rather... immaterial? Thus, physics as we know it don't really apply. And equally, the idea of 'wings' is often a sign of power. There are many people where they have wings on their astral form, or auric form, who are not angels or any type of celestial. This even plays out in the choirs of angels doesn't it? The 'higher up' the more wings... the more power! <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s -->

As for dragons: No, they are NOT necessarily having more energy. SOME of us were entirely this-universe physical. That said, the only reason why adult shinoar could fly was due to being on a planet with lighter gravity, as well as one with near constant winds at altitude of at least 35mph. We were 7 feet tall at the *head* and most of that was leg, about 15 feet long, and had a wingspan somewhere between 32 and 36 feet. The width of the wing membrane at widest point was between 5 and 6 feet. I estimate we'd weigh about 500lbs here on earth.
Main biological reason for belief of lighter gravity: Our deciduous tree-types were easily the size of redwoods. HUGE! D:
Our limb arrangement was wing first, arms secondary and very limited with regards to range of motion, then legs.

Unfortunately the rules of the physical and the rules of the astral don't always coincide. For example, my wings in their purest state resemble solar flares...as you can imagine one can't survive if they have molten radiation flowing out of their backs. xD not for long anyway.

Shiari Wrote:As for dragons: No, they are NOT necessarily having more energy. SOME of us were entirely this-universe physical. That said, the only reason why adult shinoar could fly was due to being on a planet with lighter gravity, as well as one with near constant winds at altitude of at least 35mph. We were 7 feet tall at the *head* and most of that was leg, about 15 feet long, and had a wingspan somewhere between 32 and 36 feet. The width of the wing membrane at widest point was between 5 and 6 feet. I estimate we'd weigh about 500lbs here on earth.
Main biological reason for belief of lighter gravity: Our deciduous tree-types were easily the size of redwoods. HUGE! D:
Our limb arrangement was wing first, arms secondary and very limited with regards to range of motion, then legs.

It strikes me that on a low-grav planet with 35+mph winds all you'd be able to do is fly. So the real question is - could you walk? <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s -->

We angels don't use our wings for flight in most cases. we fly more akin to Superman. Goku and Neo are also good examples of how it would go. we might fan them if we're hovering, for dramatic effect, but for the most part, they were more like arms than legs, in that they were used as limbs, but not for transport.

attach them right at the shoulder-blade, one on each, and look at the muscle structure of shoulders for a good idea of how it would all go together.

angelic wing size, strength and style denotes the amount of energy the being is capable of pumping out, age, status, duty, etc.

I.E: each wing is roughly 40 feet, feather and muscle structure is that of an eagle, dark midnight blue feathers...this guy's a BAMF of an angelic warrior who's probably got a name that translates into "The Hammer of God" or "The Middle Finger of God" or "T-Bone" or something, and has gotten his hands dirty enough to have his wings generally take on a much darker shade over time, though he isn't Fallen, so they aren't Black, you know? same wings, take off ten to fifteen feet, white and silver bright enough to make something small, dark and nasty shrivel and *poof* simply by looking at them? you're either looking at my college buddy Nicodemus, or one of Michael's frat-boy war buddies.

I.E.2: tip to tip wingspan of 25 feet, wings of a sparrow that shine with the color of dandelions, butter and happiness...probably a Messenger under Gabe's command, or one of Raphael's singers. same size and color, but a hawk's wings? Guardian, i bet.

Wings work as shields as well as status symbols. they can take a lot of punishment, and their owner won't feel the pain until after the battle, which is VERY useful...though hot DAMN does it hurt! they can also be used to hide their owner, as a blanket, an extra set of arms to hug with, a pillow, a cushion for rough landings, and a bathrobe after a good hot shower.

We were actually mostly ground-based predators. The strong winds weren't at ground level. Probably... several hundred to a couple thousand feet up? Above the tops of the trees, certainly. Ground level had winds at varying rates, from non-existent to probably around 20mph. And besides that, while 35mph winds are strong indeed, they are not so strong that you can't walk in them. If puny little me was able to get around fine in the 40+ winds we had here not too long ago, a 500+ pound me would have no problems. Creatures there ran the gamut of size. Our predator was larger even than ourselves, and was entirely ground based (hence reason for flight?). Our young needed the protection of flight the most, but did not venture into the higher reaches due to strength, endurance, and skill. Learning to truly fly took time, trial, and error with my species. We were much, MUCH slower at it than birds. But "up, flap turn, glide-flap-flee" was perfectly possible for the youngest that we'd take out of the clan-center. Especially since no adult traveled without another adult with them. The predator thing wouldn't hesitate to take a single shinoar, but a pair or more can take *it* down instead, or at least deal with it long enough for it to give up. They were big and nasty, but entirely animalistic ambush predators. Kinda bear-like.
The reason for the wonky winds and weather was, I believe, ye auld joy of having 3 moons. I don't even want to imagine what the tides were like.