The Evils of Paganism (Becuase there's always another side)

I don't think it right to post a topic like The evils of Christianity without posting a flip side topic as well. Some Pagan groups are just as lousy with hypocrisy as the religions they claim are so horrible. Some Pagans, like some Christians, don't like to look into their own past and air their own dirty laundry. Allow me.

Note: If you're rather easily offended please don't read this. This is not a rant, just a response to the evils of Christianity topic.

The Past - Different Pagan groups and their crimes against Humanity

The Romans: Probably one of the worst Pagan groups when it comes to the slaughter. The romans did many great things for the world, don't get me wrong (and I myself come from a roman and Celtic background), but their forms of execution are legendary. You may argue "but they're not like the kind of pagans out there today, that's a different kind of pagan!" But if one is going to include all Christian and Judeic religions together in one group, ALL Pagan groups will be placed together as well. I'll go into two fairly well known forms of execution carried out by the romans but in case your curious, here is a wiki page linked to the other 22 forms, out of many other I'm sure, of Roman execution:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ancient_Roman_executions">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:A ... executions</a><!-- m -->

Crucification: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion</a><!-- m -->

Crucifixion was a terrible way to die. those who went against the Roman Emporer, did not worship the proper gods, or captured prisoners suffered this fate. More often than not you were tied (or nailed) to a wooden cross and if they were feeling particularly mean they'd break your legs with a mallet. You died slowly.

Now for the more "entertaining" form of execution: getting torn apart by wild beasts. And guess who was the prime target of THAT. That's right, those silly Christians, who practiced their own faith in secret and if discovered by "the man" was put to death for it. Sound familiar?

The Vikings: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking</a><!-- m -->

Do the words "rape, pillage, and burn" mean anything to anyone? The Vikings were a fierce breed of warrior pagans, who's influence reaches far further than Scandinavia. But the death and destruction they caused in their wake is notable. Those who believed in the Norse gods also believed in Valhalla, and in the idea that the only honorable way to die was with a sword in your hand. Sounds honorable, sure, sounds glorious. Tell that to the women that were raped and the entire village that were burned to the ground.

---

Conclusion

As you may have noticed I only touched on two of the many pagan groups through out history. that is becuase I simply don't know enough about the "new age" pagan groups, nor do I know enough about the other old pagan groups to post on them...yet.

The fact of the matter is there will always be a top and an under dog, especially when it comes to politics and religion. Christians have done some awful stuff but so have Pagans and Buddhists and anyone else with a crazed opinion. I'm not trying to start a hate topic, but both sides need to be explored. Christianity and Paganism has done many great things for humanity but we can't look blindly on and keep attacking one another.

---

Discuss.

Prince Wrote:Christians have done some awful stuff but so have Pagans and Buddhists and anyone else with a crazed opinion.

Buddhists? Honestly, the only people I've ever heard of them hurting is themselves. Which is a pretty good way to be, if you ask me.
Maybe I'm under-informed on them, though.

I have only ever heard of buddhists lighting themselves on fire in protest. Harming others is against the religion's/philosophy's tenets I think.

Xanthus Wrote:

Prince Wrote:Christians have done some awful stuff but so have Pagans and Buddhists and anyone else with a crazed opinion.

Buddhists? Honestly, the only people I've ever heard of them hurting is themselves. Which is a pretty good way to be, if you ask me.
Maybe I'm under-informed on them, though.

There is and has been fights between different sects of Buddhism. Let me find some links and references for ya. If it turns out i can't, then I'll gladly retract the statement.

EDIT: "...In the fighting over Sri Lanka, Tamil Hindus have fired machine guns at school buses full of Sinhalese Buddhist children, and the Buddhists in turn have firebombed Hindu schools."

taken from this article: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.beliefnet.com/story/103/story_10357_1.html">http://www.beliefnet.com/story/103/story_10357_1.html</a><!-- m -->

Only thing even close to that I know of is that way-way-back buddhist monks were the ones who brought the original martial arts from India into China, Japan and Korea. Though, to Korea's credit, they already had their own regional martial arts, too at that point. China and Japan though? Total credit-stealing posers.

Prince Wrote:EDIT: "...In the fighting over Sri Lanka, Tamil Hindus have fired machine guns at school buses full of Sinhalese Buddhist children, and the Buddhists in turn have firebombed Hindu schools."

taken from this article: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.beliefnet.com/story/103/story_10357_1.html">http://www.beliefnet.com/story/103/story_10357_1.html</a><!-- m -->

Wow, I guess it goes to show you, even Buddhists can be violent. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s -->

EDIT: Then again, was this actually religiously motivated? Or was it just a matter of group1 attacks group2, group2 attacks back?

Xanthus Wrote:

Prince Wrote:EDIT: "...In the fighting over Sri Lanka, Tamil Hindus have fired machine guns at school buses full of Sinhalese Buddhist children, and the Buddhists in turn have firebombed Hindu schools."

taken from this article: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.beliefnet.com/story/103/story_10357_1.html">http://www.beliefnet.com/story/103/story_10357_1.html</a><!-- m -->

Wow, I guess it goes to show you, even Buddhists can be violent. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s -->

EDIT: Then again, was this actually religiously motivated? Or was it just a matter of group1 attacks group2, group2 attacks back?

The second bit is trumped by the fact that its Buddists vrs Hindus and that's the apparent reason for the attacks. Either way if Buddhists were Buddhists they would never retaliate O-o no matter how awful the attack.

I think what this boils down to is not the Evils of any one religion, but the evils that people are willing to perpetuate. *Proper* buddhists would not harm people, except maybe in either self defense, or the defense of the helpless, and even then would likely not try to do serious injury. *Proper* christians are the tolerant ones who aren't hell-mongering, bible-thumping mental throwbacks to swamp-ooze. If the religion itself calls for the injury of others (like some of the examples in the original post), then one can truly discuss the 'evils' of it.

Shiari Wrote:I think what this boils down to is not the Evils of any one religion, but the evils that people are willing to perpetuate. *Proper* buddhists would not harm people, except maybe in either self defense, or the defense of the helpless, and even then would likely not try to do serious injury. *Proper* christians are the tolerant ones who aren't hell-mongering, bible-thumping mental throwbacks to swamp-ooze. If the religion itself calls for the injury of others (like some of the examples in the original post), then one can truly discuss the 'evils' of it.

Amen, that being said Agnostics and Atheists are grouped in as well, as the South Park episode "Go, god Go!" illustraits. I think humans have a fundamental need to dominate each other, using all the tools of the trade, religion being the most powerful of those tools.

Prince Wrote:The Vikings: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking</a><!-- m -->

Do the words "rape, pillage, and burn" mean anything to anyone? The Vikings were a fierce breed of warrior pagans, who's influence reaches far further than Scandinavia. But the death and destruction they caused in their wake is notable. Those who believed in the Norse gods also believed in Valhalla, and in the idea that the only honorable way to die was with a sword in your hand. Sounds honorable, sure, sounds glorious. Tell that to the women that were raped and the entire village that were burned to the ground.

That article is one of the best examples of how wikipedia isn't always the best source.
Acctually, the teachings of the "viking" (or teutonic) religion does not state the only honourable death to be one with a sword in their hands.
There are very few places that actually were raided at all and history's victors milked it for all it was worth.

The old nordic peoples were merchants first and foremost. The teaching of the gods was one of respect for others and moderation.