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Souls - Your opinion.
lillightfoot
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Post: #1
Souls - Your opinion.
Sorry if this is in the wrong area.

I've had this discussion with a couple of people and thought i'd throw it out there for you guys. The soul, is it mass-produced into set moulds depending on your (original) species or is each one individual? For example, do you see each sidhe soul coming from the same base mould, of course there are differences between each individual but the base is the same.

I am everything, I am nothing, I am balance.
2010-07-22 9:59
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Miniar
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Post: #2
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
Personally, I think most souls are shapeless, designed to fit whichever container they are in.
The shaped souls being exceptions, and that they are shaped because they are "created" specifically.
However, I do believe that souls can be altered throughout their existence, by powerful life experiences or something to that effect.

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"Those who can't approach discussion with a basic level of intelligence and maturity shouldn't expect to be taken seriously." ~ Qualia Soup
2010-07-22 11:11
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Archer
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Post: #3
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
I think souls emerge from complex entities and are not "added on". The idea of souls being produced or created in some way prior to the existence of the entity that they "occupy" does not jive at all. Soul is the result of life, not the cause of life.

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2010-07-22 12:40
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Seraphyna
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Post: #4
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
I think that energetic beings (demons, fae, angels, etc.) are created as such...but they aren't souls so that's sort of me playing Capt. Obvious.

I do believe that when a soul is created is it somehow "tagged" with a certain "species" depending on what vessel it is meant for. However, I also believe that after death a soul may be altered, recycled, etc. and end up another type altogether, or a mixture of types, depending how meaningful it's incarnation was.

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"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost."-Tolkien
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2010-07-22 13:37
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WolfVanZandt
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Post: #5
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
First, there's a semantical issue here. Different people mean differentthings when they say "soul". When I say "soul". I'm using it as a sysnonym for mind. In other words, humans have a body, soul, and spirit.

Nut I assume you're talking about "soul" - "spirit".

In my experience, spirits are distinguished as individuals but not as species. The only way I can tell the species of a spirit is if I know the person.

The way I feel about "soul" is much like Archer. Soul is the product (or maybe even the byproduct) of life. Soul is the product of a densely connected network.
2010-07-22 22:07
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Post: #6
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
First let us define "soul."

I am of a mind body and "soul" paradigm. In this soul is synonymous with spirit. In fact one can even say, soul, body and spirit. In this case the soul/mind is the consciousness, the awareness. This paradigm includes ressurrection in which the consciousness or so it seems to me, is given a new body "like unto the angels."

So the consciousness could perhaps be seen as somewhat generic. However, it wouldn't have existed without the mind. thus there would be some cross species difficulties. the mind of a bug wouldn't make much impact int he mind of a human. it might manifest as a mere feeling of haste or something...who knows. As it can be resurrected into either new life, or resurrected into death, this thing must persist past death, which is slightly confusing to me. The only way i can alleviate the confusion is if it is a thing that is generated during life. Thus the first life of a being, would be the life that generates the consciousness. See above concerning cross species difficulties.

The spirit then, would be another question. the spirit though, is hard to define. As close as i can tell, and I may be way off, both the spirit and the body interface through the same mind/soul. In such, the spirit can recieve information just like the body can, which then goes into generating the soul.

I'm gonna stop there for now until i can think some more.
2010-07-22 22:17
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WolfVanZandt
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Post: #7
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
The way I see it is that mind has no independnt existence. It's pure information and requires a substrate to be. It's an example of nonbeing in being (one of those categories of existence that the East has but the West never recognized.) The substrate can be any densely connected network. Either the body or the spirit fits the bill. Since the body and spirit share the same mind, that's the interface.

I've been in the spirit pool and our language doesn't work there, but the closest I can come to describing it is that the spirit doesn't perceive; it simply knows. So it doesn't perceive self; it knows self. Since consciousness is a form of perception, the spirit isn't precisely conscious. What it is, though, is something orders above consciousness. It's not "located", in other words, it's not bounded by time or space. It's both everywhere in the universe or it's nowhere. All spirit coexists - which is why I talk about the "spirit pool". It's as if you're in a pool but instead of water, your in spirit, except that you're the spirit.

In a way, our universe has a spirit but there is nota multiplicity of spirits.But there are a multiplicity of spirits - God is separate from the spirit of our universe, but it's not a spatial separation. All spirits are in the same "place" - except there is no "place" outside the framework of our universe, unless it's in the famework of another universe. But space and time only exists within the gramework of a universe. Outside of the universe, those things don't exist anywhere.

I'm, per force, an animist. All things have spirit. Spirit is the template on which all material and energy things have form. In the spirit pool spirit is like the sound of an orchestra. If you saw the sound (say, on an oscilloscope) it would be one complex waveform. Amazingly, the human ear can pick out each component of such a complex waveform. It's not that the sound of the oboe exists in the complex wave, but the information of the oboe is preserved and can be recognized by the ear/brain. In the same way, spirit isn't a conglomerate of a multitude of spirits - it's one thing, but the information of each entity is preserved in the whole.

And that's only an allagorical description, which is the best I can do, but it's not nearly good enough.
2010-07-23 5:55
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Post: #8
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
Upon thinking some more, I find it possible that "spirit" may just be a life force. So then come the cross species questions again. Can the life force of a mosquito work in the body of a human....I have no idea.

The spirit as life force leaves me with another difficulty. The body is limited in it's perceptive ability. it seems that somethings we perceive cannot be done so with the physical body, thus their must be another mechanism for reception of information. This could be the spirit I suppose. (I think i maybe has said that above)

As i sat here typing I recalled John's trip "in the spirit" from the island of patmos. This could work in two ways. He was bodily swept away by the spirit of God...or....he was out of body, his spirit, still having consciousness (soul/mind....perhaps, or maybe necessarily, still attached to his mind as in typical projection) saw the visions of the Revelation...
2010-08-16 7:56
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WolfVanZandt
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Post: #9
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
I consider John to be a shaman and his "spirit guide" is the Holy Spirit. I say that with a fair amount of confidence because, if you read the biographes of pagan shamans and then the lives of saints and prophets, you find startlng parallels.

My best guess is that what we perceive about the world around us is a virtual reality much like the one you see right now on our computer screen. The buttons, arrows, scroll bars, etc. that you work with on the screen don't exist - what they all are are flat designs created by electrons striking the inside of a cathode ray tube or organizations of polarities in layers of liquid crystal. The computer is doing things with ones and zeros that allows you the illusion of working with buttons, arrows, scroll bars, and the like. But, if you took your computer apart, you would find that, even the ones and zeros don't exist. There's electron flows through transistors, magnetic polarities, photon streams - the same chemicals that makes up rocks and clouds. The world inside our head doesn't exist but it's a useful illusion.

How do we perceiev the unperceptible? - by it's results on the perceptible. Often those results are subtle but not so subtle that the subconscious mind of a sensitive person doesn't pick it up. The shamanic world - what I call Dreamtime - is the same kind of virtual reality as our perception of our more obvious surroundings. I sense it as an overlay over that more "mundane" perception. As I move further and further into deep Dreamtime, the overlay becoes more salient and the mundane perception recedes.

But I've gone behind the virtual reality also and the perception doesn't exist at all there - just the knowledge.

I would say that mind is perception, but there's something much more real behind the perception and I would call that spirit.

There's a guy named Pearson who's been cooking up mathematical models that make him think that he's found spirit in the densely connected network of subatomic space. I think he might be on to something but I also suspect that he's letting himself think that he's way ahead of where he actually is. My best guess is that he's found how mind can exist in the universe but I don't think he's found spirit. Mind can exist on densely connected networks - that's what our material brain is, and I think that Gaea thinks on the local space of this planet (for that, I can refer you to a book entitled "The Mind of God" by a man named, I think, Davies).

I think that spirit is a densely connected network but it's not intrinsically a part of this universe - it's the foundational template of this universe. I'm reminded of vacuum molding. Plastic sheeting is heated to make it pliable and then it's placed over a mold and a vacuum sucks the plastic down over the mold before it's allowed to cool in the shape of the mold. The plastic is our universe and it's shaped over the mold of spirit.
2010-08-18 8:32
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Post: #10
Re: Souls - Your opinion.
I say that with a fair amount of confidence because, if you read the biographes of pagan shamans and then the lives of saints and prophets, you find startlng parallels.


IMO, that's just because human beings, for the most part, are all equipped to touch the spirit world in the same way.

Just like how, for the most part, we all have the same visual equipment.
2010-08-18 23:02
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