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Soul Size
chaitea
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Post: #1
Soul Size
I got this from the deity thread
<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://forum.otherkinphenomena.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=727">viewtopic.php?f=11&t=727</a><!-- l -->

And wanted to explore it a bit more since some people think a physical body has a certain capacity for spiritual energy, is endless in that regard, or anywhere between and/or other.

As for myself, I have a mixed view. Part of what makes me feel ‘other’ is the sensation of my body not being able to fully contain my less physical bits. And not just in the sense of phantom limbs.

But when considering the concept, I also don’t believe the spiritual and physical can be measured with the same system. Thus when considering the soul it’s tricky cause we put something intangible in terms reserved for things we can (in some way) measure.

A soul can not be measured. If someone says otherwise, lets see the proof that souls exists in the first place, and then write a paper and go get the Nobel Prize!

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2008-06-29 1:12
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Archer
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Post: #2
Re: Soul Size
IMO concepts like "soul size" and "soul age" and such are just an assumption that non-physical constructs share the same properties as physical (specifically human) entities. I don't think all intelligent life is essentially human-like, and so I don't find the concept useful.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

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2008-06-29 1:44
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Tzolkin
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Post: #3
Re: Soul Size
I think the soul is not something measurable. However, I think the energy field generated during communication with a soul is, and the human form can only take so much of it. So the human/incarnate in question would only be aware of a certain fragment of themselves at any given time, based on the amount of energy they can handle. Sort of a failsafe mechanism so as to not overload a person who's still adapting to physical life.

It could be said from this theory that one can gain more capacity for energy by learning who they are, and in turn gain more knowledge of themselves due to the increased energy capacity.

Meditation, anyone? <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

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2008-06-29 1:53
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Seraphyna
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Post: #4
Re: Soul Size
I don't think souls have a size per se, but I do believe that some contain more energy than others and some contain different varieties of energy than others. Thus, a form a soul wasn't exactly designed to have might feel like it's stretched to the limit to contain it. This is where the concept of wards, binds, etc. come in with respect to angels. Many angels feel that their form is "bound" into human form with wards, etc. This is because angels (and energetic beings in general) contain more concentrated, different, and possibly just more energy than the soul of a physical being...thus, in taking a physical form, something has to keep that energy contained. Of course that's debated, but it's a theory.

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"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost."-Tolkien
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2008-06-29 2:29
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DevilDraco
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Post: #5
Re: Soul Size
If souls do definitely exist, and therefore interact with our physical bodies in some manner. It could be that (even if they follow different rules) the portion that interacts with our physical form simply ends up being interpreted by physical perceptions, resulting in something like the soul feeling too 'big' for the body, even if size doesn't technically apply to a soul. It just merely translates this way as a form of recognition of the circumstance, even if it isn't the literal true circumstance.

Or it could literally be that the portion of the soul that interacts with the physical body is truly 'bigger' than the body, being necessarily related to physical factors itself to certain degrees.

Like say, if a soul must have a certain connection to the body to be linked (even if the rest of it is different), and this connection is 'location' which is being 'within' the body, then physical factors regarding location could come into play in minor amounts. If it's located somewhere, then it takes up 'space', and it'll take up that space in relation to where it is located.



In any case, I'm one such person who has a sense of my soul being 'bigger' than my body. Though in my case it's not so much in an actual size difference (when I envision the form I see of my true self, it isn't particularly bigger than this), it's more of a difference of presence/energy. Like, there is a field of presence that would normally extend far out past my so called 'body' but in the case of this form I am in now, it is held and turned within instead. The presence is my body in a sense, but at the same time not, if that can be understood. It makes me feel claustrophobic, like there are walls within my personal space, pressed tightly against me, making it hard to breathe. It is also rather painful in my case, not physically so, but it is like my energy is being held in a container too small and turning against itself, pressing outwards but not escaping much. It's difficult to explain why it is, but it is almost maddeningly painful to me at times. I do have to say though, that as much as it is possible that I have too much energy, it is also quite possible for me that my energy is rather instead not very compatible with this form (or potentially both to certain degrees). This said because I consider myself as related to Chaos, as well as a form of fire (though I do not really consider myself akin to a demon with the chaos aspect), which both seem somewhat difficult to relate in terms of this body.


So as for that, I don't really consider Souls to have size so much as some sort of 'presence' which viewed from a physical/human perspective comes to be felt as size even when it isn't really. Two different beings could be the same size, but give off a different presence (such as anger compared to happiness) that makes one appear bigger. Though this isn't to say spirits with big presence are angry <!-- sTongue --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- sTongue -->, just to give it some sort of example. This applies to various animals too, which sometimes enact ways of acting to seem more threatening, bigger than they really are.

The monster I am is the reflection of you.
I am the flame and chaos ever reborn, a devourer to renew, unbalanced to cultivate, and beast of the world to feast upon all.
Give of your blood and spirit, or flee in cowardice.
2008-06-29 5:29
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Motley
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Post: #6
Re: Soul Size
I don't think size is exactly the right word, but it's a word that seems close to the idea. Face it, our language was built around physical concepts.

There is a matter of focus. The human mind can expand, through things like meditation, but once it does so, it loses track of the finer details. In the waking world, the details are easily seen, but we lose sight of the big picture. Just like how our physical eyes cannot focus far and near at the same time. So we get down-to-earth people who handle the daily details with ease, but lack a certain amount of creativity. On the other end, we get absent minded professors and artists who can't balance a checkbook. The best a human can do is learn how to shift between these extremes, perhaps even expanding their effective range with effort and practice. That is one way in which the whole experience is 'too big' for a human mind to comprehend in its entirety.

There is also the matter of the etheric body. I see this as an energy form that acts as a bridge between the soul and the physical body. Maybe the soul doesn't have limits, but the physical and etheric bodies do. Different cultures have different names for this intermediate body, some divide it up even further into more layers. As my sifu says, "Too much chi can kill you." After blowing a circuit in my left wing earlier this year, by doing something stupid, I'm inclined to agree. But that was the etheric body, not the soul. It healed up after awhile. Still, it remains that my linear sense of consciousness, which I usually think of as residing in my physical or etheric bodies, can only take so much.

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2008-06-29 17:41
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Veritas
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Post: #7
Re: Soul Size
I've always felt uncomfortable with trying to define a soul by the same physical standards we define ourselves. There are certain things that are comparable of course. But too many things that physical standards just can't fit, like size and age. Its all in how you define terms like size, and big, or small.

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2008-06-29 23:29
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Kreyas
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Post: #8
Re: Soul Size
I agree, I don't think there's a physical size to a soul or even a set physical size for the energy of that soul "occupies."

When I hear people use the term "big" in reference to a soul, I've often heard it in reference to the metaphysical ability of that individual in human form.

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2008-06-30 1:58
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flarablaze
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Post: #9
Re: Soul Size
Kreyas Wrote:I agree, I don't think there's a physical size to a soul or even a set physical size for the energy of that soul "occupies."

When I hear people use the term "big" in reference to a soul, I've often heard it in reference to the metaphysical ability of that individual in human form.

Precisely. However, using myself as an example, having more than one soul in a body, and/or the amount of energy the person tends to use, can seriously affect it. As I have said before, I am a generator energywise. I kept my energy locked extremely tightly within myself after I did the walk-in thing, so much so that it barely affected my physical body when I entered. But the energies of the souls my body has held (To my count, at least two, as well as a manifested spirit of an inner demon (which was a pain in the ass, btw)) has deteriorated my body immensely. I have joint issues now when I didn't three years ago, and no real reason for them. Now, I may be incorrect. I am not saying it's a 100% fact, but I think part of the problem is the fact that I am constantly putting forth so much energy. It's worse when I try to contain it, and when I actually use energy to do things I tend to feel better momentarily.

I don't believe that it's a matter of not "fitting", I think it's a matter of the amount of energy certain bodies can be put under before they start to collapse. Let's face it. Someone with more body fat or muscle mass may not have the same aches and pains I do, they may be different.

If I am not making any sense I apologize, it's 3 am and I am tired. What I am trying to say is that I think that while there is no such thing as a physical size to a soul, the energy of said soul, compacted and whatnot, can fluxuate in density and that sort of size. And that can affect your physical self, especially if you don't know how to fix the situation.

Did that even make any sense? >_< gah
2008-07-01 7:15
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Post: #10
Re: Soul Size
I've had people use "size" as an argument a lot lately. Size and Age, each of which I'll talk about some.

Size:
I've had people tell me that "nothing larger than a phoenix is able to incarnate as human because a phoenix is the largest thing that will fit in a human body." (As far as I can tell a fellow named Zygopterix is the source of this claim, at least he's the source given on the info) This then means that there's no such thing as dragon-kin as dragons are too large to fit into human bodies.
Similairly I've heard claims to explain that the reason why insect-kin and or small-animal-kin don't exist is because their souls are just too small to operate a human body.
Other common claims are to the "intensity of energy" that a human body can not contain certain entities or certain "powers" because it's more than the physical body can take.
These people that make these claims usually don't have an aweful lot to back up the claim with other than someone may have told 'em this somewhere/sometime before. When asked exactly "how" this works the most common reply is that that's just how it is. That there's only so much that the human body can take. Well, yes, that's obvious, but HOW does that work when dealing with the metaphysical exactly?
The human mind is bound by it's limits, and that limits what we can perceive and how we can perceive it and how we can process it, but that doesn't mean that other things can not be present. Just because you don't see the air you breate, doesn't mean it's not there. Just because you can not hear a sound doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Or to reword it somewhat, just because a part of a bird's song contains notes that the human ear can not hear, doesn't mean the soundwaves of those notes does not hit the ear at all. Or a computer analogy perhaps? Just because a windows-PC can not run a mac-based program, doesn't mean it can not exist on that comuter's harddrive.
So how exactly can a human, physical, body and mind, restrict what can be present? Knowing that there are multiples that walk around with several souls, dragons the size of warehouses, energy-based-entities, that walk amongst us without a problem, how can the claim add up at all?
It just doesn't make any sense what so ever.
And most of the time I see the claim, it's at the hands of people who are putting themselves pretty high up on the scale of what is "possible". People saying that things bigger, badder, stronger, more powerful than they themselves are, are impossible. A roundabout way of claiming that they are the biggest, baddest, strongest, most powerful thing available, usually offered with a roundabout faux-humility of claiming that it's not special or important.
The people claiming that a phoenix is the biggest thing that'll fit are all phoneikai for instance.
It's a common point in the "more kin than you" rant I see every day.

AGE:
"I am X thousands of years old" Right, and are those "earth" years? Are those Mars years? And what has that got to do with whether or not you are able to display a level of intelligence or reason beyond that of cabbage?
There are a lot of people out there that claim to be ancient, or even older, older than time, older than existence, and so on, and so forth.
Like the idea of size, the claim of age would be fine in and of itself, if it had anything to do with what people are discussing or the claim came with some ability to "act your age". All to often, the ancient will purpously speak in arbitrary riddles and (excuse my french) utter bullshit trying to give off the air of being knowledgable and deep. It's a joke. The age of a soul is often thrown around as an effort to appear to know what you are talking about as well, somtimes in combination with how long the person in question has been "awake", not to mention how long they've been active in the kin community, or more specifically in the community in which the person is speaking at the point that they bring up age.
"I am X thousands of years old, I've been awake and a member of online kin communities for Y years and a member of this one for Z!" This is supposed to make people less inclined to question you? Instead make people just roll over and take every word you say as complete truth as you "must" know what you're on about, after all, you've been around for this long.

The thing is. We can't even been trusted to see what we can measure as it is. We can look in the mirror, measure our bodies in every way concievable and we'll still lie to ourselves about them. People can not percieve their physical selves with complete accuracy. We like how we look, we don't like how we look, we think this shirt is awesome on us, we blame pants for the size of our bum so we can eat another bag of skittles, and then we want to add these sort of measuraments to things that aren't measurable?
What is the size difference between a vampyric soul and a "generator" and how does that reflect their energetic needs and give-off? It's about as logical/reasonable/intelligent/etc as asking how big 5°c is. We can measure the expansion of matter between 0°c and 0°5 but that's again, different for different materials and doesn't tell us the size of the actual heat either. Only what the heat does to the matter.
So what does the soul do to the flesh? How do we measure that? These are questions that have to be answered before any claims of limitations of size can be taken seriously. The idea that the size of the soul makes such a massive difference makes me wonder if all the "larger than human"-kin are morbidly obese, and all the "smaller than human"-kin are underweight.

And age, we all know children that display intelligence and wisdom beyond their years and vice versa, we know complete idiots that happen to be fully developed adults. So please, while it might make for some banter, being around for thousands of years is not something to boast of unless you've amassed thousands of years of experience, knowledge, and wisdom. Anything else is just plain old "better than you" bs. Years are worthless, what has value is what you've learned from them.

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2008-07-01 13:52
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