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"So, what's the 411?"
lemur
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Post: #1
"So, what's the 411?"
For a while now I have been lurking around the celestial sections of boards and reading articles, but I end up frustrated and with a headache trying to understand some thinks. Could someone please explain "the basics", or point me toward an article about it? For instance, what exactly are choirs? Who do angels serve, after all? Why? I apologize if I sound completely ignored, but the most I have managed to was go all "...what does this mean?" or just plain astonished by the discussions of who was who. I'm just very curious, because au contraire of most kin-types, angels are the ones I'm practically clueless about (unless you count the stereotypical notion, but since these are generally just that for most people out there... I suppose for angels it'd be the same).

Thanks in advance!
2008-04-18 9:58
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Qarael
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Post: #2
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
Can't go into very great detail, but there is a discussion about choirs here. They are, in my opinion, a way to classify angels by form and function. Different people subscribe to different structures... most widely recognized is this one, and is the one I see as most fitting. Not every angel fits into just one choir, however... they may be of one in particular, but works so closely with members of another that they are considered part of both.

Angels serve God, the All, the Creator, the Source of life and reason. As for why we serve... we were created to serve His will, and it is our joy to do so. "Why" as in "to what purpose"... eh, just to keep life rolling all smoothly, interjecting and guiding as needed. There are other angelic-like creatures that fulfill similar roles to their own, separate deities, but allegiance to the Creator is a requirement to the title of Angel (or former allegiance, in the case of the Fallen).

Erhm... that's really just the questions above, and nothing else... sorry 'bout that, but I gotta dash early this morning <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

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2008-04-18 11:24
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lemur
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Post: #3
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
Palmer Wrote:Can't go into very great detail, but there is a discussion about choirs here. They are, in my opinion, a way to classify angels by form and function. Different people subscribe to different structures... most widely recognized is this one, and is the one I see as most fitting. Not every angel fits into just one choir, however... they may be of one in particular, but works so closely with members of another that they are considered part of both.

Angels serve God, the All, the Creator, the Source of life and reason. As for why we serve... we were created to serve His will, and it is our joy to do so. "Why" as in "to what purpose"... eh, just to keep life rolling all smoothly, interjecting and guiding as needed. There are other angelic-like creatures that fulfill similar roles to their own, separate deities, but allegiance to the Creator is a requirement to the title of Angel (or former allegiance, in the case of the Fallen).

Erhm... that's really just the questions above, and nothing else... sorry 'bout that, but I gotta dash early this morning <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->


Thank you!! Thank you so much. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile --> And no problem, just that was already helpful and made me slightly less confused <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->
2008-04-18 12:44
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Seraphyna
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Post: #4
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
Not all angels are servants of God....not all are exactly servants at all. In my opinion, we celestials often fit into one or more of the following categories: tools, containers, and weapons. I seem to fit all three in a way. I serve the universe...not some deity and many angels are in the same boat as I am. I also don't belong to a "choir". It's hard to talk about the angel/celestial thing because so many of us don't fit others' theories and beliefs on our kin type. So being confused is pretty expected, especially by non angel/celestial kin.

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"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost."-Tolkien
"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."-Poe
2008-04-18 14:46
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Post: #5
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
At the same time, "God" does not refer to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic paradigm by itself. "God" is that universal force. I like to look at God in two ways, as the primary mover as discussed by Aquinas, and actually about his actions more like Brahman in the Hindu belief.

Brahman is beyond perception, is the lord and creator of everything. We cannot perceive Brahman as Brahman is, only as Brahman chooses to manifest itself, thus Hinduism is a monotheistic religion with 5 million gods. Each god is a manifestation of Brahman. The western world just tried to explain the Creator in a different way, and I don't define a deity by the Humans who tried to explain him for the purposes of re-uniting Rome, but I do try and understand what is behind the explanations.

I do believe that all Angels either serve the Creator, or are Fallen. Celestials do not necessarily serve the Creator, but Celestials are not Angels, Celestials are a more broad term.

A dog and a cat are both animals, but are very different, let Angels be dogs in this analogy, and something that isn't a dog may still be an animal. Both the animal and the dog are animals though.

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2008-04-18 15:33
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lemur
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Post: #6
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
Oh, thank you, that was very enlightning! =) Those explanations definitely helped.

Seraphyna, I actually had no idea how much diversity there was, but I was definitely aware of the complexity -- of course, like you said it is easier for non-angel/celestial kin to get confused! Thanks for letting me know I'm not just horribly thick <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Terro, that was very interesting to read, thank you. For some reason I actually had the (wrong) notion that angels = celestials = those who served a force which I had no idea if it was the Western conception of god or what. So definitely thanks for shedding some light on this!
2008-04-18 15:56
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Terro
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Post: #7
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
Angels are one of the few culturally universal entities, so being consigned to just what the Catholic Catechism states is a little narrow. Also the thing I feel that makes an Angel different from a Celestial is that service to the Creator, if they are unrelated, they are not Angels.

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2008-04-18 16:14
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Veritas
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Post: #8
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
All angels serve, most the creator. I have heard other people say thaey are angelic but serve a diffrent god. I personally only beleve in one God but thats besides the point I think.

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2008-04-18 16:27
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lemur
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Post: #9
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
So, let's see if I got this right... there are celestials, and though not all celestials are angels, all angels are celestials. Angels serve a creator -- but not all celestials do. Did I get this right?
2008-04-18 16:39
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Post: #10
Re: "So, what's the 411?"
star Wrote:So, let's see if I got this right... there are celestials, and though not all celestials are angels, all angels are celestials. Angels serve a creator -- but not all celestials do. Did I get this right?
Correct!!! You get a gold star.

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2008-04-18 16:45
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