Hide background
READ THIS!

Welcome to the Otherkinphenomena forum.

You really have to follow these instructions! Instructions will update as you progress.

If you wish to post on, or access most of the content of our forum and our community, please click here to register first, then follow the instructions below. If you have already registered, please log in, in the above "Hello There, Guest!" box.

Thanks for understanding and see you around.



Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Lucifer's Fall
Feral
Member is Offline
Copy cat
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 142
Points: 795.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #1
Lucifer's Fall
This message says nothing.
2008-01-24 19:03
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Terro
Member is Offline
Gymnastics instructor and lifeguard
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,028
Points: 5340.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick 

Post: #2
Re: Lucifer's Fall
I believe to remember that the Fall of the Morning Star was followed closely by a war. Obviously if Morning Star and all the Angels who Fell with him felt incredibly wronged by the decision, there could very well have been an altercation, to say the least.

I also have heard a great many Angelic Otherkin speak of said war, which is also said to be the first war, and it is believe largely to center around that event.

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-01-24 21:01
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Ashaiel
Member is Offline
student
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 150
Points: 845.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #3
Re: Lucifer's Fall
As far as I can recall, Lucifer -- or Helel -- left of his own volition, because things got so bad in Heaven that he couldn't stand it anymore. I myself have a similar story, which I talk about in the "Why are you here?" thread.

Therefore, I couldn't tell you why his fall is thought of as this huge war. The only explanation I could possibly conceive of is that Helel and Samael -- who were close friends, but not at all the same angel -- are getting confused. What I've recalled and read from other accounts is that Samael is, in fact, the one now called "Satanel" or "Satan" -- NOT Helel.

Of course, I am by no means an expert on this; and it's probable that there is something else I simply don't remember. Maybe Terro or someone can help us out?

~ Ashaiel

Magnificat anima mea Dominum!
2008-01-24 21:05
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Vantalus
Member is Offline
Traveler
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 115
Points: 630.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #4
Re: Lucifer's Fall
Lucifer left of his own accord. it was Samael who was ordered by Alaha to stir up enough trouble to rile up Michael, and hence the first War started, and ended with Samael getting "tossed" out of Heaven (if only Michael knew the fight was rigged and Sam was supposed to go...*ponders*)

Much later on, Michael started to take on a greater role of leadership, and changed things. a LOT. even more so than the first time. Lucifer so fed up with how things were being run that he up and left, throwing down his swords (Anael, his lover, gave him hers before she went to earth and became *fake dramatic gasp* Eve.) at Michael's feet and followed Ana to earth and later gave her the infamous apple, because he loved her and gave her the gift of choice.

I'm guessing that all of Lucifer's fangirls/boys were quite upset about this, blamed Michael, and tried to take him down for it...so he tossed them out for trying to attack him. hence, the event that could be called the second War, even though, just like with the first, the term "war" doesn't fit as well as "slaughter," but you know how things are...
history is written by the victors.

Type: Protoangel | Gender: Male | Path: Deistic
[Image: Dramadestroy.gif]
"I sculpt your nature within/I am your Pygmalion/Go, Now, Into the world/Trial by Fire. Trial by Fire!"
-ThouShaltNot
2008-01-25 1:10
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Feral
Member is Offline
Copy cat
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 142
Points: 795.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #5
Re: Lucifer's Fall
This message says nothing.
2008-01-25 2:01
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Terro
Member is Offline
Gymnastics instructor and lifeguard
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1,028
Points: 5340.00
Contribution: tick tick tick tick 

Post: #6
Re: Lucifer's Fall
I believe there have been multiple "altercations," though I don't believe any involved so high a percentage of the host than the first one. I also believe that is the only instance where the entirety of the Archangels were involved.

Now as far as Michael casting out the Morning Star, talks about it being rigged or whatnot, things in Heaven being extraordinarily bad. I've seen no evidence or text to support this really, and going alone on memories, I belief very differently. The thing that sticks out the most though is this, I don't believe Michael ever laid a hand on Morning Star to cast him out. The "Fall" is so named for multiple reasons, one could say it is a fall from grace, fall from service or even to fall out of formation, but the literal consequence is to be immediately expelled from the realm of Heaven. If the Angel that is Falling is not in Heaven, they don't move, but I believe that Angels who Fall have their permission to be within Heaven revoked instantaneously, and are forcibly launched. I also believe this is why there is talk of multiple levels of Heaven, that certain beings may only access certain portions of the realm of Heaven. The Silver City is, I believe, the core and only the most "Holy" may enter there.

As far as knowing or being asked to dissent, I don't think that was the plan, to me it doesn't seem to make sense. There is a purpose to that Fall, it was the first dissent, the first disagreement. It set the precedent for others to disagree, it needed the strongest of all to represent the other side, if it were not genuine, if it weren't actually the decision to go against orders, why would the Creator choose the brightest and most high Angel of the Host?

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
-The Unit
2008-01-25 3:22
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Ashaiel
Member is Offline
student
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 150
Points: 845.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #7
Re: Lucifer's Fall
Terro Wrote:As far as knowing or being asked to dissent, I don't think that was the plan, to me it doesn't seem to make sense. There is a purpose to that Fall, it was the first dissent, the first disagreement. It set the precedent for others to disagree, it needed the strongest of all to represent the other side, if it were not genuine, if it weren't actually the decision to go against orders, why would the Creator choose the brightest and most high Angel of the Host?

Something about free will and testing of faith bringing God's children closer to Him in the long run . . . I don't fully understand it myself, so I can't possibly explain it further than that. Maybe when things in my head get balanced and start to make sense . . . but right now, someone who "gets" it and/or remembers more of it should probably do it.

~ Ashaiel

Magnificat anima mea Dominum!
2008-01-25 4:46
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Micah
Member is Offline
College slacker majoring in the cutting open of dead bodies.
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 80
Points: 455.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #8
Re: Lucifer's Fall
Vantalus Wrote:(Anael, his lover, gave him hers before she went to earth and became *fake dramatic gasp* Eve.) at Michael's feet and followed Ana to earth and later gave her the infamous apple, because he loved her and gave her the gift of choice.
I don't know much about the Adam and Eve story, but wasn't Eve made as a human rather than being an angel who descended to earth? I recall that when those 200 angels descended to earth, the higher ups weren't too happy about them mingling with the humans. And if Adam was human, would that also mean Cain and Abel were nephilim?
2008-01-25 18:36
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Shyrokino
Member is Offline
Fly on the wall
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 39
Points: 270.00
Contribution:

Post: #9
Re: Lucifer's Fall
From the Bible God made the earth and then put Adam there. It was only Adam and all the animals and Adam named them, but while he was in the garden God saw that he was lonely so he decided to make him a companion. While Adam was sleeping God came to him and took one of his ribs and created Eve from it. When Adam and Eve were cast from the garden they then had Cain and Abel so according to the bible version I guess they are all human?

I didnt have my bible next to me so this is all from my memory, I appologize if I got some details wrong <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
2008-01-25 19:26
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Feral
Member is Offline
Copy cat
Kintype:
Otherkin:
Gender:
Reputation: 0
Posts: 142
Points: 795.00
Contribution: tick 

Post: #10
Re: Lucifer's Fall
This message says nothing.
2008-01-25 19:54
Find
Quote
Give Thanks
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)