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Lucifer's Consorts
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Post: #1
Lucifer's Consorts
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2008-02-09 12:14
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Post: #2
Re: Lucifer's Wives
I'm a bit confused when it comes to all these threads.

1. Judeo-Christian angels have consorts/wives?
2. And children?

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2008-02-09 12:51
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Veritas
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Post: #3
Re: Lucifer's Wives
In my personal belief they don't have children or wives they simply don't have a need to. Lucifer may have had wives outside of heaven though.

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2008-02-09 16:41
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Post: #4
Re: Lucifer's Wives
Freetha Wrote:I'm a bit confused when it comes to all these threads.

1. Judeo-Christian angels have consorts/wives?
2. And children?

You bet they did. It's not uncommon for angels to take a lover, or even more than one; I have Israfel, for example. Angels could also have children . . . one of my siblings, for example, had one of the Eshanahai bear his children, my niece and nephew; apparently, cross-breeding happened sometimes, though certainly angels could bear children amongst themselves.

Angels certainly had families, just as humans do; humans and angels are more alike than either side likes to admit.

~ Ashaiel

Magnificat anima mea Dominum!
2008-02-09 17:55
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Post: #5
Re: Lucifer's Wives
I will have to disagree. God was our father and we are all brothers and sisters but I think thats where the family similarities end. Of course the angels in our choirs were more like closer brothers and sisters. I just don't think it would have anything to do with our function.

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2008-02-09 18:49
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Post: #6
Re: Lucifer's Wives
I wonder why you two have such vastly different views on this.

For Ashaiel:
Were all different angel-types able to breed?
Were they able to inter-breed across choir barriers?
How does that add up to the differences between different choirs?

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2008-02-09 21:18
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Post: #7
Re: Lucifer's Wives
Freetha Wrote:I

For Ashaiel:
Were all different angel-types able to breed?
Were they able to inter-breed across choir barriers?
How does that add up to the differences between different choirs?

well, i'm not ashaiel, but i sometimes like to offer my unsolicited opinion.


1. there's no 'complete' list of angel types that i'm aware of...seeing as how new angels are always coming about. that said, there's no way for anyone to answer that question within absolutes and without speculation. the concept of taking on partners is not a new one to the celestial orders (see: nephilim lol)...i would argue that if anyone was to do so....it probably wouldn't have been lucifer....who was more enamored with his/her self (i'll explain why that would matter later). as far as the unions being for the sake of breeding, there's perhaps no documentation of such...but that's understandable as the catholic church didn't look so positively on sex and reproduction in the first place. (if anyone has any insight and bit more kabbalistic please throw in?). ok, now the question...i believe that there is a reproduction (obviously not in a sense that it is here) between angels. though of ether, angels are a race like others, and don't so much impregnate/birth/parent as (excuse the horrible wording i'll be using) replicate.

whether one is an angel or some other random celestial doo-dad. there's a realization that everything is cut from the same cloth. a 'new' angel is not so much the product of the parental dna as it is a product of the universe that is blessed/bestowed through the influence/essence of other angels that deal in its 'field'. (this is my entirely my own take, so i have no references sorry...it's even more a theory.) so then the development (development is another topic i realize, but real quick...i feel that the original angels came 'as is' though throughout time, the influence of mortal existence...and the need to work alongside physical reality....has given way to angels learning/adapting/evolving......part of that is my reason for why incarnates are here in the first place....but again that's another topic).....again, so the the development falls under the regent of whoever heads their choir (if they are of one) and whoever shares their traits.

concerning types then. as 'breeding' is a more physical system. i feel that angels of either lower choirs...or those that happen to work more closely with humans develop more humanistic traits. this is not only for better rapport but is just an affect...i would hope the converse is true at times. so the perception becomes one of 'breeding' vs the 'replication' theory i proposed...but i stress it as a matter of perspective. another example of this is how angels that work more often with humanity tend to have defined gender....i feel it's merely so they're better related to as their gender may vary depending on the message (see: gabriel <!-- s:-P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":-P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:-P -->).

it's a bit roundabout but my opinion is in there somewhere.


2. choir barriers...choirs have never seemed to me to be a barrier so much as an organization (perhaps a rather capricious one at that lol). many angels change choirs, appearance, and other traits...to suit what they're doing. uriel, for instance, is noted as an archangel but at times may also be referred to as a seraphim (all fiery and such <!-- s:-P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":-P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:-P -->). so i can't see there being any kind of choir discrimination when it comes to such....especially as i don't subscribe to the 'this and that angel are (specifically) my parents' mindset.


3. choir difference is one of qualitative faculty...not quantitative. i'll have many disagree with me but i don't feel it's a degree system so much as it is an organization based on what one does...and where their influences lie. i feel the main difference again is how closely they relate to physical reality. angels are quite 'everyday' with humans. archangels seem to assist with more challenging/long term issues. principalities seem to be more oriented towards groups of people over long terms....and so on down the line. i won't waste anyone's time by listing the commonly accepted choir attributes....they're easily wikipedia'd if one doesn't know....i tend to resonate with aquinas' system.

well those are my thoughts/feelings on those question. i can't say i have much to say on whether lucifer has a partner nowadays. without having mortal influence though...i can't see that happening......though i also wouldn't be surprised if it has (can't say i keep tabs on lucifer's celebrity lifestyle...just seems to me that he/she is more a tormented entity....a seraphim burning within itself....not too much time for domestic duties there). the 'bride of satan' concept is a romantic one...perhaps more likely, though it seems satanic influences tend to be too liberal for long-term relations that a 'wife' would imply....but i dunno, not my topic of expertise.

thank you for listening

blessings,
-auriel

fade in now into ambiguity, what once mere intangible now my senses align...rather do i myself lose, or is lost the world?
2008-02-09 22:55
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Post: #8
Re: Lucifer's Wives
auriel Wrote:
Freetha Wrote:I

For Ashaiel:
Were all different angel-types able to breed?
Were they able to inter-breed across choir barriers?
How does that add up to the differences between different choirs?

well, i'm not ashaiel, but i sometimes like to offer my unsolicited opinion.


1. there's no 'complete' list of angel types that i'm aware of...seeing as how new angels are always coming about. that said, there's no way for anyone to answer that question within absolutes and without speculation. the concept of taking on partners is not a new one to the celestial orders (see: nephilim lol)...i would argue that if anyone was to do so....it probably wouldn't have been lucifer....who was more enamored with his/her self (i'll explain why that would matter later). as far as the unions being for the sake of breeding, there's perhaps no documentation of such...but that's understandable as the catholic church didn't look so positively on sex and reproduction in the first place. (if anyone has any insight and bit more kabbalistic please throw in?). ok, now the question...i believe that there is a reproduction (obviously not in a sense that it is here) between angels. though of ether, angels are a race like others, and don't so much impregnate/birth/parent as (excuse the horrible wording i'll be using) replicate.

whether one is an angel or some other random celestial doo-dad. there's a realization that everything is cut from the same cloth. a 'new' angel is not so much the product of the parental dna as it is a product of the universe that is blessed/bestowed through the influence/essence of other angels that deal in its 'field'. (this is my entirely my own take, so i have no references sorry...it's even more a theory.) so then the development (development is another topic i realize, but real quick...i feel that the original angels came 'as is' though throughout time, the influence of mortal existence...and the need to work alongside physical reality....has given way to angels learning/adapting/evolving......part of that is my reason for why incarnates are here in the first place....but again that's another topic).....again, so the the development falls under the regent of whoever heads their choir (if they are of one) and whoever shares their traits.

concerning types then. as 'breeding' is a more physical system. i feel that angels of either lower choirs...or those that happen to work more closely with humans develop more humanistic traits. this is not only for better rapport but is just an affect...i would hope the converse is true at times. so the perception becomes one of 'breeding' vs the 'replication' theory i proposed...but i stress it as a matter of perspective. another example of this is how angels that work more often with humanity tend to have defined gender....i feel it's merely so they're better related to as their gender may vary depending on the message (see: gabriel <!-- s:-P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":-P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:-P -->).

it's a bit roundabout but my opinion is in there somewhere.


2. choir barriers...choirs have never seemed to me to be a barrier so much as an organization (perhaps a rather capricious one at that lol). many angels change choirs, appearance, and other traits...to suit what they're doing. uriel, for instance, is noted as an archangel but at times may also be referred to as a seraphim (all fiery and such <!-- s:-P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":-P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:-P -->). so i can't see there being any kind of choir discrimination when it comes to such....especially as i don't subscribe to the 'this and that angel are (specifically) my parents' mindset.


3. choir difference is one of qualitative faculty...not quantitative. i'll have many disagree with me but i don't feel it's a degree system so much as it is an organization based on what one does...and where their influences lie. i feel the main difference again is how closely they relate to physical reality. angels are quite 'everyday' with humans. archangels seem to assist with more challenging/long term issues. principalities seem to be more oriented towards groups of people over long terms....and so on down the line. i won't waste anyone's time by listing the commonly accepted choir attributes....they're easily wikipedia'd if one doesn't know....i tend to resonate with aquinas' system.

well those are my thoughts/feelings on those question. i can't say i have much to say on whether lucifer has a partner nowadays. without having mortal influence though...i can't see that happening......though i also wouldn't be surprised if it has (can't say i keep tabs on lucifer's celebrity lifestyle...just seems to me that he/she is more a tormented entity....a seraphim burning within itself....not too much time for domestic duties there). the 'bride of satan' concept is a romantic one...perhaps more likely, though it seems satanic influences tend to be too liberal for long-term relations that a 'wife' would imply....but i dunno, not my topic of expertise.

thank you for listening

blessings,
-auriel

Auriel answered pretty well, so I don't really have much to add.

I do have to disagree, though, that Lucifer was totally into himself. It may have seemed that way, perhaps, on occasion; but he had friends and lovers he cared about a great deal. It probably didn't help his image among his detractors that he had something of a "fan club", which included myself, to a degree.

~ Ashaiel

Magnificat anima mea Dominum!
2008-02-09 23:51
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Post: #9
Re: Lucifer's Wives
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2008-02-10 1:50
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Post: #10
Re: Lucifer's Wives
Feral Wrote:This has nothing to do with Judeo-Christian anything. The being humanity choses to call "Lucifer" predates this earth.

The query is NOT about children.


Meh. Thank you for your thoughts anyway.


i was addressing freetha's questions moreso than the original. to answer you, feral, i have never heard any mention of lucifer having consorts within doctrine or hearsay. if you would allow me to indulge for a moment...the word you chose to specify as "wife" does NOT predate this earth and thusly the connotations associated along with such...are rather moot when considering the being that humanity chooses to call "lucifer". lucifer, like everything, has the ability to love...what he/she loves currently or has held is just difficult to know...all things considered. so i apologize that i can't be much help...perhaps someone a bit 'older' than myself that has uncovered a few more memories would be of more assistance.

fade in now into ambiguity, what once mere intangible now my senses align...rather do i myself lose, or is lost the world?
2008-02-10 3:35
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