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Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
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Post: #1
Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
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2008-03-20 8:47
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Selcar
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Post: #2
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
Feral Wrote:I have been resultant to disclose whom I am (not believe, but whom I am; I will explain this reasoning shortly)

I don't follow this, perhaps it was not explained enough, or I did not understand. You draw a line between being Lucy and believing you are Lucy, why so? What purpose? And why does what you perceive as your identity go beyond belief?

Quote:however I can not say what I wish to without disclosing my identity so I have decided to do so in the interest of shared knowledge, and the hope of general advancement.

What sort of advancement? One's otherkin type seems to have an impact on a small percent of the topics - the others mostly deal with personal experience of this life. There is self admitted holes within your memory and perception of Lucifer's time time, and thusly not really a complete source - further, if all the otherkin claiming to be the Arch Angels, Lucifer, etc, etc, I doubt most/any of the stories would line up - so another one making the claim does not really give basis for good research.

Quote:To be both blunt and hopefully eliminate confusion this human self is the human incarnation of the angel known as Morning Star,

This one's potentially a mistake of a title, I would think Lucifer would know that.

Quote:I have more than enough proof/reason to believe I am the human echo of this being but you are under no such obligation. Again, I realize this is an idiotic claim,...

If you understand the nature of this claim, and have proof and reason for your "belief" (did you not say it was not belief?) why not give the proof with the claim? Especially since it would save time. Reasons and proof please.

Also, I do not think that starting up a fair amount of threads on here (and perhaps elsewheres) on the subject of people's perceptions of Lucifer really count as objective research. I know this was not mentioned, but the nature of it makes me question the suitability of the claims.

"Justice, like lightning, should appear, to few men's ruin but to all men's fear."

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2008-03-20 9:41
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Post: #3
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
Selcar Wrote:Also, I do not think that starting up a fair amount of threads on here (and perhaps elsewheres) on the subject of people's perceptions of Lucifer really count as objective research. I know this was not mentioned, but the nature of it makes me question the suitability of the claims.
I'd have to agree. Is it objective research, or feeling the crowd to make sure they couldn't offer any evidence to the contrary?

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2008-03-20 11:05
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Terro
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Post: #4
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
I'll accept that you believe you are the incarnation of Morning Star, even though you clearly state this is not a belief but rather the truth.

Such is an incredibly hefty claim to make. The only reason one gets attacked for spiritual context, in such a claim as this anyway, is for making the jump from "I believe," to "I am."

Although if you do have proof and evidence of this, I'd like to hear it, and as I say to all claims of having proof of evidence to validate who you are beyond the legal identification of you as a citizen of the United States of America, could you start with proving the existence of the soul?

You close with the words, "I bid you trust yourself." In this case...

I do not believe you are Morning Star, I believe Morning Star is not incarnated at this time, and has not been incarnated, ever.

I do not believe Morning Star ever ruled Hell, let alone just a part of it, to disagree with Milton, it is not a place to reign, but rather a palpable manifestation of the feelings of betrayal after the Fall.

I believe I had interactions with Morning Star (yes I know, so does everyone... but), in my believed recollections, Morning Star is marked most prominently by an incredible personality and charisma, this personality and charisma that would be part of the station of the first and most glorious and the leader of the entire Angelic Host.

No matter how much you say you can take care of yourself, taking the step from believing you are, to knowing you are an ancient Fallen Archangel incarnated into Human form is a dangerous step. There is a major difference in hearing a person say to you "I believe I am the Devil," to a person looking at you and saying "I am the Devil, you don't understand it yet, but I am he, made flesh." The former might get you funny looks and further questions, the latter gets you rejected or locked up for your own safety.

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2008-03-20 12:41
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Deros
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Post: #5
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
I want to believe you, Feral, I really do. You're a good person. However, as has been mentioned, there is quite a gap between "I believe I am" and "I am" that happens to be difficult to jump. Where do you get your confidence?

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2008-03-20 15:22
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Post: #6
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
We'll see. I haven't seen enough of you to make a decision as to whether or not I believe you. I can't say that I'm not extremely skeptical here, of course.

But this makes for some interesting conversation, at least. Fun fun fun.
2008-03-20 16:55
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Feral
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Post: #7
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
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2008-03-20 17:15
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Selcar
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Post: #8
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
Feral Wrote:Meh, it is a harder thing to accept.

Is this a personal acceptance that you speak of, or an acceptance from others? If it's a difficult truth to accept on the personal level, I would venture that this is potentially false - it seems easier for a person to attach their personality into an archetype (of which Lucifer counts), than find their personal truth. It's easier to be the knight, the rebel, even if the archetype is one of confusion, misunderstanding and hate is directed towards.

Quote: Perhaps someone can debunk of confirm the thought.

However, it seems your concept of Lucifer is based off of your personal perceptions, and so anything others can offer you would be based on their experiences. To me this seems to be a bit of a logical contradiction - it is easy to debunk misinformation about a myth, magic system, animal, etc. It is harder to debunk or confirm things based off of personal belief.

Quote:If but it was research I would worry.

Then why ask/try to find out so much about other people's perceptions of Lucifer?

Quote:I feel it is inaccurate and wrong to say I believe; I do not believe, I know.

One could argue, and in my world-view, everything beyond "I think therefore I am" is "belief". To explain, we have to assume that our senses tell us the truth about the world, assumption is a form of belief, etc. But, this difference is hardly something that really matters. To say "I believe the sky is blue" and "I know the sky is blue" does not really make a heap of difference. What does, is your reasoning for this knowledge or belief. Share it, please?

Quote:If my reasoning was built on such shaky ground then yes, I would agree.

Not sure what you mean on this one. If one does some research on the title "Morning Star" one finds that there's a high probability that it was taken from another culture (Greek), which was not an uncommon practice for Christianity. Further to this, the mention of Morning Star within the bible makes no clear reference that it is Lucifer - but rather, seems just as likely that it was/is a reference to Jesus instead.

Quote:"proof/reason to believe" denotes belief does it not?

Denotes belief based on logical reasoning at least.

Quote:As for why I do not offer "proof", it is not mine to give. Would you trust any "proof" I could provide?

Yes, if it was reasonably logical on how one arrived at this conclusion. It's interesting that you feel inclined to share what you perceive as Your identity, but the reasoning for why you "know" this is not yours to share.

Quote:As for your request for reasons and proof my apologies, I have no desire to debate.
And
Quote:*shrug* I wish to find truth...

Seem to be of opposing ends. Call it what you will, but the pursuit of truth is always based off of questioning. We look almost anything and this is self evident - philosophers have debated against each other for centuries over what is and is not, what is truth. Science, law, psychology, maths even. Something is questioned, answered, requestioned, re-examined, answered, etc, and once we seem settled on an answer it seems something else pops up to negate the answer we had. To seek truth, is to be part of this process.

Quote:I am not here to prove to (generic) you whom I am; You are more than free to think I am out of my mind. I stated whom I am simply to give a context and perspective to my words.

Would you explain how being Lucifer lends any added context, weight, perspective to your words than anyone else?

"Justice, like lightning, should appear, to few men's ruin but to all men's fear."

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2008-03-20 18:21
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Terro
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Post: #9
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
If you're going to make the claim, you had better be able to back it up. Anything less is terribly bad form.

You state, right out, that you have proof and reason to believe, but you do not feel you can place it here... why?

If you had proof, it would be trusted, proof is not questionable, beliefs and circumstances are. I think you have much of the latter, and you do not seem to be able to support any of the former. I have had people tell me that I am capable of physical shapeshifting, I have had people tell me that I am a Phoenix, I have had people tell me I am an arrogant jerk... what people say does not however prove anything other than the fact that they said them. If the individuals who stated you are Morning Star said so, what makes them beyond reproach? If they are astral beings or non-physical beings, how is that different from people saying that "The Devil told me to do it."

Your identity is Feral, and to my knowledge you are a female citizen of the state of California. I am a citizen of the state of New Jersey, I just happen to believe that my soul is that of an Angel who identifies by the name Terro, big difference, I can state that I believe it, I cannot prove that I have a soul.

You claim to be on equal footing of an Archangel... when have you encountered this Archangel? Are you sure this is an Archangel? You also state that you could no longer "not" believe... That is a nice mark of insanity right there.

The claim is not hard to accept if your views are skewed by psychosis. Apparently the nonphysical voices who talk to you and tell you you're ready to make these claims also tell you that you are a sane individual, read that a few times. You also did not say that you once claimed the title of "Satan," you claimed:

Quote:Feral wrote:
human self is the human incarnation of the angel known as Morning Star, also known as Lucifer, Helel, and I think properly Satan

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2008-03-20 18:31
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Post: #10
Re: Lucifer, for what the words are worth.
Feral Wrote:As for your request for reasons and proof my apologies, I have no desire to debate.

Then why did you present this claim? Just to let us all know that you think you're Lucifer? I don't mean to sound harsh or cruel, I'm just trying to point out that in posting something like this you should expect to be questioned, not just automatically believed. If you want to learn and try to figure things out, then debating or hearing things from another person's perspective can be very helpful. So I'm a bit confused as to why you posted this claim if you don't actually want to discuss it in specific details.

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2008-03-20 18:39
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