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In need of an opinion...
SoftLight
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Post: #1
In need of an opinion...
What is everyone's opinion of the likelihood of a given divine being deciding to turn a soul that already existed into a celestial being/angel working for him/her/it? As opposed to making one from scratch. Or would you go and "work" for a divine being forever and still always be considered a human/elf/whatever that just happens to spend the majority of your time incorporeally running errands and generally doing said divine being's bidding?

If that makes any sense, anyway.
2008-08-02 2:10
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Archer
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Post: #2
Re: In need of an opinion...
Well, first up, I don't believe in the soul as such.

With that in mind - I don't think anyone can helpfully answer without knowing why you think this may have happened. There are so many and so varied reasons why something could happen that it would take all day to say which seem reasonable, and which do not.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

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2008-08-02 2:21
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Deros
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Post: #3
Re: In need of an opinion...
(based on either loose memories or imagination; take it or leave it) Actually, I've had a bit of experience in this matter. When I (or Yriela and Kraela, actually) was/were a Watcher(s)-going to stop this now and just go back to singular. Anyways, when I was a Watcher, I had been made for that purpose. However, there were other beings that occassionally proved themselves to my father and were allowed to become Watchers themselves. These beings were Watchers, yes, as much as any of the originals, but were seen, by me at least, as being lesser, simply because they weren't programmed for the job. It's the difference between being a "first" and an "after".

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2008-08-02 16:55
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SoftLight
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Post: #4
Re: In need of an opinion...
Quote:I don't think anyone can helpfully answer without knowing why you think this may have happened. There are so many and so varied reasons why something could happen that it would take all day to say which seem reasonable, and which do not.

Honestly, if I had any ideas on why this may have happened, I would have added that to my original post. Why I'm asking about the possibility is that I've got a set of "memories" that are not celestial in origin. I've got a more recent set that is - some things may be open to interpretation, but that they are more recent isn't. Now, the possibilities are that I could be 1) insane, 2) deluding myself, 3) interpreting something incorrectly, or 4) completely correct. I'm trying to narrow it down a little bit.

And before someone says that I should just trust my instincts - my instincts in this area were...damaged...during a failed awakening (for lack of a better description) and before anyone asks about THAT, no, I'm not really interested in going into details.

Quote:Actually, I've had a bit of experience in this matter. When I (or Yriela and Kraela, actually) was/were a Watcher(s)-going to stop this now and just go back to singular. Anyways, when I was a Watcher, I had been made for that purpose. However, there were other beings that occassionally proved themselves to my father and were allowed to become Watchers themselves. These beings were Watchers, yes, as much as any of the originals, but were seen, by me at least, as being lesser, simply because they weren't programmed for the job. It's the difference between being a "first" and an "after".

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
2008-08-02 21:10
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Post: #5
Re: In need of an opinion...
SoftLight Wrote:Honestly, if I had any ideas on why this may have happened, I would have added that to my original post. Why I'm asking about the possibility is that I've got a set of "memories" that are not celestial in origin. I've got a more recent set that is - some things may be open to interpretation, but that they are more recent isn't. Now, the possibilities are that I could be 1) insane, 2) deluding myself, 3) interpreting something incorrectly, or 4) completely correct. I'm trying to narrow it down a little bit.

The problem is - the universe is a huuuuuge place. Ideas and memories of what an "angel" is, how "the creator" works, etc etc etc, are very many, very varied, and often do not match up with one another.

As such, all someone can really say is "Yeah, it is POSSIBLE." It might be possible in my paradigm, but not in yours, or the other way around. It might make sense in my paradigm, but not yours, or the other way round. Your paradigm - your understanding and memories of how "god" and the universe work, might be completely different from everyone else around here.

It's a bit like asking people interested in fiction "Do alternate universes exist?" Well they do in Star Trek, but not in Babylon 5.

I'm not suggesting your memories are fictional - just that as they might not be from the same "world" as someone else's, they probably play by different rules, and so it flat out doesn't give you more information to ask other people what things were like for them.

That's why I wanted more information about your memories and your ideas - so I can give input as to whether or not I think it would make sense for any divine beings you could have been involved with to "convert" someone.

Quote:And before someone says that I should just trust my instincts - my instincts in this area were...damaged...during a failed awakening (for lack of a better description) and before anyone asks about THAT, no, I'm not really interested in going into details.

I'd never say "trust your instincts". I'd be more likely to suggest you question your instincts, and work out why they are what they are in the first place.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

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2008-08-02 23:13
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chaitea
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Post: #6
Re: In need of an opinion...
I got a few possibilities to add:

One is the idea of Ascending, where a direct divine connection is made.
The thing about angels (or any being that directly serves a deity) is that they are connected to the divinity directly. Thus in this case it is one becoming connected to the divinity directly, instead of already being like that. *untwists tong*

Another one for if there are these memories of a non divine life, they could be from having experienced other lives in a human body while taking “breaks” from always having a divinely’esk one.
So basically, part of the mix up can be the order these memories are in. Say the divine being starts off that way, then incarnates as a human or something for a while, then goes back to being all divine when that life ends.

Though as far as I’m concerned, anyone can become an angel by putting on a dress, playing a harp, and bleeding glitter (I would recommend not trying to achieve the latter)

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2008-08-03 1:10
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Seraphyna
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Post: #7
Re: In need of an opinion...
chaitea Wrote:Though as far as I’m concerned, anyone can become an angel by putting on a dress, playing a harp, and bleeding glitter (I would recommend not trying to achieve the latter)
*beats Chaitea with a cherub* Such stereotypes...To answer the question at hand, it is my belief that there is a real and intrinsic difference between the energy of an energy being, like an angel, and that of a soul (soul meaning the energy of a physical being). In that respect, it is not possible to become an angel unless you are created as such. However, it is possible to become angel-like in function...but one's form, unless the Source for some reason decides to utterly alter it, will not be that of an angel unless one is created as one.

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2008-08-03 1:58
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SoftLight
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Post: #8
Re: In need of an opinion...
Quote:The problem is - the universe is a huuuuuge place. Ideas and memories of what an "angel" is, how "the creator" works, etc etc etc, are very many, very varied, and often do not match up with one another.

As such, all someone can really say is "Yeah, it is POSSIBLE." It might be possible in my paradigm, but not in yours, or the other way around. It might make sense in my paradigm, but not yours, or the other way round. Your paradigm - your understanding and memories of how "god" and the universe work, might be completely different from everyone else around here.

Maybe I just didn't frame my question very well. Let's try this - In your paradigm, and the universe(s) you know, with your divine being(s) that you work with/have contact with/know of/etc. is something like this likely?

Quote:It's a bit like asking people interested in fiction "Do alternate universes exist?" Well they do in Star Trek, but not in Babylon 5.

I'm not suggesting your memories are fictional - just that as they might not be from the same "world" as someone else's, they probably play by different rules, and so it flat out doesn't give you more information to ask other people what things were like for them.

It depends on what information I'm looking for. I'm not asking about what things are like where I come from - I'm asking about what things are like where YOU come from. So, from your example, Picard from Star Trek would say "yes" while Sheridan from Babylon 5 would probably say "no" or might say "I don't know - talk to the physicists back on Earth."

Is it going to be directly relevant to me? Most likely not. After all, I don't live in either universe. Am I interested in all answers, whether they directly relate to me or not? Absolutely! It's why I asked the question.
2008-08-03 2:05
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SoftLight
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Post: #9
Re: In need of an opinion...
chaitea Wrote:One is the idea of Ascending, where a direct divine connection is made.
The thing about angels (or any being that directly serves a deity) is that they are connected to the divinity directly. Thus in this case it is one becoming connected to the divinity directly, instead of already being like that. *untwists tong*

Okay, so the way this works, you're deemed an angel however you started as long as you have the direct connection.

Quote:Another one for if there are these memories of a non divine life, they could be from having experienced other lives in a human body while taking “breaks” from always having a divinely’esk one.
So basically, part of the mix up can be the order these memories are in. Say the divine being starts off that way, then incarnates as a human or something for a while, then goes back to being all divine when that life ends.

I suppose that could very well explain it. I'm just not remembering the earliest stuff.

Quote:Though as far as I’m concerned, anyone can become an angel by putting on a dress, playing a harp, and bleeding glitter (I would recommend not trying to achieve the latter)

Then I'm already disqualified - I don't own a dress, never touched a harp, and I hate glitter. *shudder* Darn the luck!

Seraphyna Wrote:To answer the question at hand, it is my belief that there is a real and intrinsic difference between the energy of an energy being, like an angel, and that of a soul (soul meaning the energy of a physical being). In that respect, it is not possible to become an angel unless you are created as such. However, it is possible to become angel-like in function...but one's form, unless the Source for some reason decides to utterly alter it, will not be that of an angel unless one is created as one.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense to me. Like a harp string - you vibrate at one specific frequency and are a specific length. Changing the pitch you vibrate at is possible, but not exactly easy - you'd have to be chopped for a higher note or be spliced for a lower one. Easier to start with a brand new piece of string.
2008-08-03 2:17
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Post: #10
Re: In need of an opinion...
SoftLight Wrote:Maybe I just didn't frame my question very well. Let's try this - In your paradigm, and the universe(s) you know, with your divine being(s) that you work with/have contact with/know of/etc. is something like this likely?

Not remotely. In my paradigm, the only entity I would consider "divine" wouldn't have any reason to have servants anyway; it would just do what it wanted to do itself. (Why write a computer program to change the OS, when you can change it yourself with a single keystroke?)

What I would consider roughly equivalent to "angels" are not regular beings that were changed, they were elemental beings highly attuned to the "divine" from the start.

Personally, I consider the most useful definition of "angel" is "an entity created by a divine or higher being to serve it; possibly but not necessarily of limited free will". As such, by my use of the term, no, something cannot be a non-angel and then changed into an angel. However, a non-angel could certainly be altered to have the same functions as an angel.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

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2008-08-03 2:31
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