Here's a 'What If' for you...

It has been sometime since anything has been posted in the Dragons section so i bit.

What if it was proven beyond any doubt that dragons do not and never have existed anywhere? However unlikely it is that this could happen, let us suspend that idea for moment so i can ask the real question. If this 'What If' happened, how would it affect your association as Drac'kin?

I don't have my answer to this question yet. As soon as i do i will post it. Also, this can pertain to any kin really myth or otherwise. Although it would take much more suspension of facts for something like wolf kin.

Everything has to happen somewhere. Besides, what are they going to do, plug google into the multiverse and see if "dragon" turns up in the "organism" category? I see myself as a dragon, and I have enough doubts against my beliefs being proven utterly wrong- in this life at least- to not feel the need to actually answer this question.

I would probably accept it then to have simply been an archetype that I plugged into my belief in reincarnation. *shrugs* No matter what, my Self is a shinoar.

Deros Wrote:Besides, what are they going to do, plug google into the multiverse and see if "dragon" turns up in the "organism" category?

Not sure if they've fixed it since, but a few years ago we tried Google Maps to get directions and they had the most absurd way of describing a Michigan left. Google may be more reliable than not, the scientific method and empiricism are good enough to get us out there waving our pom-poms on a regular basis, we've experienced energy work that certainly seems to pass the test of objective reality, but even so...how are we ever really sure we know anything? (I mean, aside from the fact that we know we can give instructions for a Michigan left that are far less confusing than what Google did.*)

To be clear, I do think it's possible that there's no such thing in objective reality as "dragon" other than what humans have invented with their imaginations, but still, knowing...this is why my system has gotten to the point of largely shrugging off the question of objective reality when it comes to 'kintype. Maybe our hopes are right on that count. Maybe they're not. Either way, we are the way we are and we have to come to grips with that. Which makes our answer to the what-if, which I think we already stated in the Hot Seat thread or somesuch**, that it'd hurt but we think we'd recover pretty quickly. We've already come to grips with the possibility of that loss.


-Shainin

* For the curious, and to prevent a threadjackingly long diversion: A "Michigan left" is turning left onto a divided highway - you can't legally make a direct left turn, so you have to turn right and use a break in the divider to make a legal U-turn. Google's instructions were something like, "Turn right on Road X. Continue left on Road X. [i.e.: get into the left turn lane and start bearing left] Turn left on Road X. [i.e.: continue turning so that you point perpendicular to the road while sitting in the crossover.] Turn left on Road X. [i.e.: finish turning left]"

** Not merging this because the Hot Seat is one great big long glorious mess, whereas this is a fairly focused topic. If another green or red name feels differently, that might change, dunno.

Stig Wrote:What if it was proven beyond any doubt that dragons do not and never have existed anywhere?

since you specified "anywhere" to me that would mean they also didn't exist in the minds and imaginations of others. Which in tern means i would have no understanding of the term which no longer existed, along with the idea of it.

But (since this was not specified) I would still be having the memories, phantom sensations, and shifts into another aspect. Only difference that i see here is that i would not know what to call it since it was not known.

Stig Wrote:If this 'What If' happened, how would it affect your association as Drac'kin?

So I guess I'd be just another otherkin who couldn't put a label to what they were
and thus, probably pester the hell out of all you fine chapts into helping me come up with the title of my ever persisting sensation that i believe make me something other then human, even if that something is unknowable. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s -->

Stig Wrote:What if it was proven beyond any doubt that dragons do not and never have existed anywhere?

It is impossible to prove a negative.

There is however enough evidence that dragons never existed physically on Earth, and no evidence whatsoever that they did, to convince me that there have never been physical dragons on Earth. As such the question does nothing for me at all.

Lawl at Deros' Google idea. Wouldn't put much weight on that even, since it can't even get the streets here in town right. e.e

I can't say it'd have a big effect on me; I already accept and support the idea that dragons have never existed on Earth, and I wouldn't be too put off to find out they've never physically existed anywhere else. If we were talking about somehow peering into other 'planes of existence' and going "Yup, no dragons here!", including things like the Astral, that'd be a bit harder for me to grasp in general, because I'm of the opinion that everything exists somewhere (even if I have to facepalm slightly at the thought of Pokemon existing somewhere as well. Ouch).

To end my rambling before it really starts, I'd have to say that I wouldn't really care if dragons actually didn't exist anywhere other than in myth and people's heads. I'd still use it as a representation of myself and would probably still identify with it spiritually. It's just me.

Archer Wrote:Stig wrote:What if it was proven beyond any doubt that dragons do not and never have existed anywhere?



It is impossible to prove a negative.

The point of the question is not whether or not it is possible to prove dragons never existed. Nothing can never be proven absolutely since our perspectives will always be limited. However, the real point to the question is: How would you react? Given that "it is proven that dragons never existed," how would it affect you association of being one? The answers so far to the effect of "it wouldn't; i am me even if there is no other name to it" I think i'd agree with. Thinking on it, I am me no matter what i can or can't call myself.

Of course, its not just your answer that interests me but also you reaction to the question. The answer in the answer or the answer in the non-answer. If you will.

If it's somehow magically proven that celestials do not and never have existed...

Well, it would be a whole lot more than just my kin identity that gets shaken. What? The atheists were right all along? I have to throw spirituality and religion out the window too?

I don't think it would go over well.

I'm perfectly reconciled to the idea that my identity could be something clinical so really, it wouldn't bother me. I have never made a distinction between my humanity and draconity. I *am* what you see and I have these experiences regardless of what label gets applied to me. The label would change, my experiences would not. Only the reason for it happening would change in my personal explanation and I'm ok with that since I have only ideas and opinions for the "why" of it all.