Enochian Magic

So the subject should be kinda self explanatory... what do you all think of Enochian magic as brought forth by John Dee and his seer Edward Kelly? I have a few friends in the A.'.A.'. who have told me they have had good experience with it so Ive been doing some research into it with the plan to make an experiment of it recently... that is after i can read the calls without sounding like I'm stumbling about the words like a drunken sailor lol.

Why do they call it "Enochian??"

because it was originally thought to be the same magic given to Enoch by god.. its in one of the biblical books that was not added to the formal cannon. though modern thought is the enochian entities aren't angels at all... they conform to whatever fits your world view.

First of all I would like to say Happy Birthday to Kurogitsune. Second I believe that Enochian Magick is very difficult to perform for me because the tablets are overwhelming and so is the language. I cant seem to find a proper link to tell me how to pronounce the darn words. Also I have yet to master the alphabet because I dont use it all that much, unlike Theban and the Elder Futhark. I do like the way the system works though. If I felt like practicing I believe it would get me somewhere. Good luck to all who wish to practice it. It will most likely be a difficult yet interesting journey.

Wait, so you are referring to the book/s of Enoch...like Enoch 1 and 2 from the ethiopian bible?

Where in those books does it say god taught Enoch magic?

And are you referring to Enochian magical script? i myself am skeptical of the origins of that, do you have any sources on it?

well http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articl...ok_of.html should give you a brief synopsis of the book of Enoch.. It is said it is the same system of magic taught to Enoch after his living ascent into heaven and transformation into Metatron... though the system that was given to Dee and Kelly has many pieces missing and thus cannot be used to its full effect. The system was given through scrying to Dr John Dee and his seer Edward Kelly in the late 1500's. It is a very complex system if you follow the journals to the letter, a bit more complex than old school Goetia if that is possible... lol

ok that site is talking about 1 Enoch.

when it says, "the foundation of magic" i believe it refers to the sin of the watchers, which, in part, was teaching sorceries to mankind.

The book of palaces, sometimes called 3 enoch, is the one about metatron. I wouldn't go so far as to say Enoch was taught magic. in that book he was kind of made into an angel, and then taught wisdom and knowledge concerning the cosmos. I mean, heck, that might mean he's the best theoretical physicist now.

Kurogitsune Wrote:So the subject should be kinda self explanatory... what do you all think of Enochian magic as brought forth by John Dee and his seer Edward Kelly? I have a few friends in the A.'.A.'. who have told me they have had good experience with it so Ive been doing some research into it with the plan to make an experiment of it recently... that is after i can read the calls without sounding like I'm stumbling about the words like a drunken sailor lol.

I enjoy Enochian Magick alot. I don't do it as much as I'd like to, because I'm too skeptical at times, so I dislike being the skrying at the same time as being the orator, so the majority of my Enochian acts are when I'm with others, so it limits how much I can do it. I also like seeing people I dislike get into Enochian magick, because few magick systems are going to give you the "Year(s) of Hell" like Enochian will. I like the system, I just haven't decided if or how to use it, if I'm going the old school route, or going the GD way, or possibly working out a third path at some point.

Kurogitsune Wrote:because it was originally thought to be the same magic given to Enoch by god.. its in one of the biblical books that was not added to the formal cannon. though modern thought is the enochian entities aren't angels at all... they conform to whatever fits your world view.

From my remembrances from True and Faithful, it's not so much that Enoch was taught magick, but Dee was trying to communicate with Angels in a way that he felt hadn't been accomplished since Enoch. He wanted to talk with them like Enoch, the magick that came out of the system was secondary to the goal of communicating.

I haven't decided what I think the Enochians are, I know they're not YaHooWaHoo's Angels, I wouldn't rule them out as not being Celestial though. They definitely have some of that feel, and personality to a proper Celestial.

Seraphin Wrote:Second I believe that Enochian Magick is very difficult to perform for me because the tablets are overwhelming and so is the language. I cant seem to find a proper link to tell me how to pronounce the darn words.

There is only one "system" of pronunciation, that was largely created by Mathers. Frankly I think that method is too complicated and artificial to be any use when speaking to Enochians. It might sound weird, but just trying to say the words, are messed up as they come up, tends to be better than the GD system. Whatever, if any, proper pronunciation there was, it died with Dee, but I've always liked Lon's interpretation that the Enochians are like the French, they expect you to butcher the language, but they appreciate you trying.

Kurogitsune Wrote:The system was given through scrying to Dr John Dee and his seer Edward Kelly in the late 1500's. It is a very complex system if you follow the journals to the letter, a bit more complex than old school Goetia if that is possible... lol

The Golden Dawn system, was in some ways simplified (and other ways made more complex) but I think it's worth checking out, even if you're going to practice it old school, just because it's good to see and understand how and why a system has been interpreted.

Gesigewigus Wrote:I enjoy Enochian Magick alot. I don't do it as much as I'd like to, because I'm too skeptical at times, so I dislike being the skrying at the same time as being the orator, so the majority of my Enochian acts are when I'm with others, so it limits how much I can do it. I also like seeing people I dislike get into Enochian magick, because few magick systems are going to give you the "Year(s) of Hell" like Enochian will. I like the system, I just haven't decided if or how to use it, if I'm going the old school route, or going the GD way, or possibly working out a third path at some point.

Actually after some long research it seems for most Enochian workings all you need is the calls and the great table... the more of the traditional perihelia you have the better of course... but it isnt needed. I find this very exciteing as it adds a dimention of portability to the system.

Gesigewigus Wrote:From my remembrances from True and Faithful, it's not so much that Enoch was taught magick, but Dee was trying to communicate with Angels in a way that he felt hadn't been accomplished since Enoch. He wanted to talk with them like Enoch, the magick that came out of the system was secondary to the goal of communicating.

I haven't decided what I think the Enochians are, I know they're not YaHooWaHoo's Angels, I wouldn't rule them out as not being Celestial though. They definitely have some of that feel, and personality to a proper Celestial.

I haven't quite decided either.. however i do agree they are not YHVH's, that becomes apparent when you really begin to look through the journals of Dee himself. There are some who think they are the bound watchers of the book of Enoch, others that they are the fallen angels of the first rebellion... I myself dont know how one can pin them down as they seem to conform to whoever summons them, as it has been observed what a Wiccan sees is quite a bit different to what a Satanist might see. As for their celestial nature.. Ive seen arguments for and against it, mostly due to their odd sense of morality and impartiality to what their powers are used for.

Gesigewigus Wrote:There is only one "system" of pronunciation, that was largely created by Mathers. Frankly I think that method is too complicated and artificial to be any use when speaking to Enochians. It might sound weird, but just trying to say the words, are messed up as they come up, tends to be better than the GD system. Whatever, if any, proper pronunciation there was, it died with Dee, but I've always liked Lon's interpretation that the Enochians are like the French, they expect you to butcher the language, but they appreciate you trying.

well there are a few from what I've seen.. there is Crowley's version of almost singing it one letter at a time, there is a more practical version that more or less allows you to speak it as long as you resonate the names out properly and take care to use vowels correctly, then there is the way long term veterans like Benjamin Rowe pronounce it which sounds flat out like they are just speaking another language in its speed and fluidity.

Kurogitsune Wrote:I haven't quite decided either.. however i do agree they are not YHVH's, that becomes apparent when you really begin to look through the journals of Dee himself. There are some who think they are the bound watchers of the book of Enoch, others that they are the fallen angels of the first rebellion... I myself dont know how one can pin them down as they seem to conform to whoever summons them, as it has been observed what a Wiccan sees is quite a bit different to what a Satanist might see. As for their celestial nature.. Ive seen arguments for and against it, mostly due to their odd sense of morality and impartiality to what their powers are used for.

I work extensively with the BNI, and the Enochians feel very different to me, so I don't think they're the Watchers, still part of YHWH's paradigm, and they just don't have that feel to them. Their sense of morality and scope are exactly part of the reason I can easily see them as Celestials.

Quote:well there are a few from what I've seen.. there is Crowley's version of almost singing it one letter at a time

Crowley's is Mathers'. Other than that, I wouldn't call anything else a system, because they don't really have rules, it's just people who say the words, and it can be different for others, or even their own pronunciation a few seconds prior.