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Elven Self Control (and anything related)
Miniar
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Post: #1
Elven Self Control (and anything related)
Yo elfy peoples.
I'm curious about "specific" elven traits, specifically..
How does your self-control work/function?
Are you able to voluntarily let go of your self control?
How much of it are you able to let go of?
Is there something that your "self" (nature, soul, wards/binds) will not allow you to do, that would relate to/feel like self control or self control related?
Are you sure whether or not these things are human/elven?

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"Those who can't approach discussion with a basic level of intelligence and maturity shouldn't expect to be taken seriously." ~ Qualia Soup
2009-01-07 21:35
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Iro
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Post: #2
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
(Points to response on EF.)

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2009-01-22 19:34
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Elinox
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Post: #3
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
Iro Wrote:(Points to response on EF.)

Could you maybe copy/paste it here? Some of us aren't members over there and it might be beneficial to read it. Thanks!

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2009-01-22 19:36
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thetwins
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Post: #4
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
Iro Wrote:(Points to response on EF.)

Erms...... EF? If it is a different forum we don't even know which forum you mean, which means we aren't a member there. So we second what Elinox said - could you kindly post it here?

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2009-01-22 19:56
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Elinox
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Post: #5
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
thetwins Wrote:
Iro Wrote:(Points to response on EF.)

Erms...... EF? If it is a different forum we don't even know which forum you mean, which means we aren't a member there.
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I'm assuming it's the forum linked to in Freetha's banner: Ethereal Forest.

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2009-01-22 20:13
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Iro
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Post: #6
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
Hehe, sorry. Will do. I wrote that mainly because I was trying to answer Freetha and she hadn't responded over there.

...and yes, EF is Ethereal Forest, which Freetha mods.

Quote:Wow, haven't postinated here in a while...

First, I'm not one to say much of anything about the elvish race. This is partially because my thoughts differ from many (as you know) and partially because (from observation and personal opinion) elves are like rakshasa in that they basically embody chaos/madness/etc. Rakshasa, from what I've heard from Ges, manifest this in their bodies, which for the most part is not something elves do (we have a racial form).

Second, I'm not quite sure I understand your question. Are you referring to "self-control" as in "you can make yourself act in a way that will fit into society" or "free will" as in "you can make decisions independent of an outside entity forcing you (mentally) to make said decisions"?

For the first, yes, I have self-control. I have two mindsets. First, I don't like upsetting people (and thus conform to social norms) because I don't like yelling/violence directed towards me and I feel other people's unhappiness. Second, by acting innocuous (normal - conforming), then I can more easily manipulate my way into getting what I want. That may come across as a bit selfish, but I'll put it another way: it's more difficult for me than most to be simply myself and mesh with others such that they will assist me. I don't entirely (or even mostly) attribute this to my elvish nature, but I have tested that and found that the weird perspectives I hold that I trace to my faerie do throw people off to the point that they often avoid associating with me. Not that these are particularly obnoxious, but more that I'm too weird. I can be obnoxious like anyone else and I can be elvish and not obnoxious and get different responses with about the same outcome. The latter is the fear/awe response of wide-eyed pseudo-horror covering the thought, "What the Hell? He's not natural/human." I could say more, but eh.

As for free will...well, I'm not sure. I think of "free will" as being both redundant and false: your will is usually about as free as it can be, but you'll always have an environment that will influence your decisions (otherwise you can't make decisions). I have difficulty doing certain things. I have to be in a different state of mind (which is often random) in order to do most magical things (locks, either self-imposed psychological devices which I escape via the sub/superconscious or else something "metaphysical" that requires the sort of aids used in ceremony). I'm prone to doing things that do not help me because of feelings I have either "natural" or "social" ("nature empathy" [feeling the groanings of the Earth, plants, animals, the ecosystem, etc.] or plain old empathy). Take my circle of friends here at college: we all enjoy playing these non-standard card games that involve screwing over other players (generally through alliances, trading, wheeling and dealing, and backstabbing). Sometimes in such games I find myself actively trying to maintain harmony because I'm not liking how vicious the game has gotten/is getting (I tend to stifle "weapon cards," if that works, and other offensive maneuvers, regardless of who is being targeted). Generally, I only do this if I'm not really paying attention/don't have my head in the game. By keeping my mind in the game, I can keep this under control, though with more competitive and aggressive players if I do so I end up becoming spiteful. I'm not sure if I can attribute this to my elfin-ness or not. The "nature empathy" thing I do for fairly obvious reasons, though I still take long showers even though I consider myself an environmentalist.

I'm not sure if that helped much, but I tried. ^^()

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2009-01-22 20:52
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Miniar
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Post: #7
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
*copy-paste*
What card game is this? (Sounds munchkin-y)

It does help, to a point, I'm just asking around and looking for information in general at the moment.
Anyway, what I mean by self control is probably better referred to as "restraint" or something of that sort. The sort of self control, that is, that keeps you from lashing out verbally/physically at people who you might none the less find clearly deserving of a smack in the face. The self control that allows you to be angry, frustrated, irretated, etc. without "acting" on it.

(I dun wanna steal convos)

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2009-01-22 22:36
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Iro
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Post: #8
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
(Ist confused about card game-ness.) Huh? Do you mean the innocuous bit so as to manipulates? Heh heh. Maybe. I do love Munchkin (well, kinda).

What prevents me from reaching out and smacking people are a few things:
1.) Do I stand a chance of having others react to me more negatively because of it?
2.) Does the one I want to smack have powers (loose definition on purpose) equal to or greater than my own such that I'll receive an equal/greater smack in return?
-A fear of negative consequences (having had plenty of those happen to me) has instilled this thinking before speaking/acting. It can be bypassed via all sorts of measures (such as being egged on).
3.) Do I really want to hurt the person or do I just want to correct him/her and be on my merry way?
4.) Do I have the energy/will to even bother? With many of those I label "stupids," I don't even bother paying attention.
5.) Do I really want to experience the bilious and flaming hatred I keep bottled away?

I try to keep my anger under heavy lock and key (and deadbolt and so forth), though I've learned to let off steam every so often. I have a tendency to explode and turn into a monstrous figure of violence (physical and verbal), doing things I wouldn't ordinarily do, and then getting a good chance to see myself. I haven't lost myself completely in a rage (at least recently), though I've come very close (someone snapped me out of it, thankfully, before I could do too much damage). The aftermath was more my sorrow and guilt than anyone else having problems, though there was still that. I try using techniques to calm me down (listening to music for hours on end helps) and avoid others when I'm having difficulty. If I'm in a social situation and am being riled up, then I apply as much restraint as possible. Years of practice has helped the most.

Dunno if that's just me or similar with others. I also don't know how that relates to being elvish, though I have some theories with which I shan't bore you.

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2009-01-22 23:01
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Miniar
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Post: #9
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
I'd love the theories mind you.
(Thanks for at least posting... )

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2009-01-22 23:15
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Iro
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Post: #10
Re: Elven Self Control (and anything related)
A'ight. Here goes.

Hypothesis Number One: Vices
I'm prone to metaphors, hence saying that elves and rakshasa and so forth are embodiments of "chaos." To me, this is only a concept and I haven't quite bought into Plato's Theory of the Forms, and so saying the above only really works as an analogy. However, the analogy works along some psychological lines. One of these is a hypothesis I have (given observations) in regards to "racial vices." In many fantasy depictions, elves are rendered snooty and demeaning of others as if they are simply better than everything else. I think of this as the human viewpoint, for I think humans are a bit obsessed with hierarchical socialization (it annoys the tar out of me, so I might be projecting, but like I said this is what I'm gathering). Envy and Pride go very well together and, as I believe Augustine says, the former (and really every vice) can be reduced to a manifestation of Pride. Looking at that and comparing it to my life, I had to disagree. I'm a wrathful person and most of the time my outbursts have had little to do with a feeling of Pride (either personal or from the one/those who made me angry), but were simply anger. I also have seen, especially in fantasy fiction post-Star Trek but in fiction and folklore predating that, that elves are more emotional overall than humans and thus more prone to anger. Basically, a matter of differences in psychology.

Hypothesis Number Two: Something Metaphysical
Every race has (or at least should) questioned why it exists. I don't know why elves exist; mayhaps it's a brute fact (it just happened), mayhaps they are extensions of some cosmic force (like many mythical races could be), mayhaps they have a specific task. I'm prone to thinking it's a brute fact, but it needn't have to be. There are many stories of spirits who punish the wicked (the erinyes, for example) or lead souls into the afterlife (the keres/valkyries, Hermes, and other psychopomps); some of these stories depict the spirits as grisly things ("demons" in the modern sense). Perhaps elves (or similar) were among these spirits and perhaps the grisly quality is true, in which case elves are such a type of demon - they have a metaphysical quality to them that makes them prone to anger/violence. Not a great possibility, I admit, hence why I don't subscribe to it. Please note that I use the term "metaphysical" in the philosophical understanding (something of fundamental reality) rather than the occultic (something magical).

Hypothesis Number Three: Mundane Frustrations
Elvish anger could have absolutely nothing to do with the race itself, but be a result of frustration, stress, and other factors that bring about anger. If this is the case, then elves either shouldn't be more prone to anger than humans (or really any race) or else they are subject to more stress/frustration/etc. than others. I can only attest for myself; I know others on otherkin boards have reported a wrathful nature, but this has not only crossed species lines but isn't exactly something that has been analyzed and examined on the scale required to evaluate it properly (at least, to my knowledge). As such, the idea that elves are different from humans in this regard could be dismissed fairly easily, albeit not with enough evidence.

Those are my three main hypotheses. I have a few others, but they aren't really anything more than inklings - not at all formulated, even into words. I do think that a poll needs to be done (at the very least) concerning how prone to anger/emotion people frequenting otherkin boards are (and evaluating that against otherkin type).

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2009-01-23 0:33
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