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Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
Terro
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Post: #1
Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
It has come up recently where I have seen individuals claiming enlightenment or learned decisions in which have effected them in Angelic Hierarchy or status of loyalty or dejection from the paradigm or service to the Creator.

I wanted to see what you guys think on this.

I personally feel that while incarnated, the great majority of us have very limited knowledge or memory of our past lives and therefore really cannot make lasting or important decisions. It's like being five years old and having an odd and deranged view of the world that Shaolin Monks have tunnel series throughout the world to pop up anywhere and that Aliens are going to start coming down and writing us tickets for polluting the planet, and then deciding on a goal and career in life that shall supersede and take precedence over whatever it is that you learn down the road as a legally binding path.

I don't think the accumulated wisdom of a life as a Human living on Earth in the physical realm can begin to make conjecture as to what is right and wrong to do as an immortal and divine Creation in the Service of the Creator, nor can the Creator be directly reached for comment.

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2010-03-26 18:13
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Kiera
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Post: #2
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
Terro Wrote:It has come up recently where I have seen individuals claiming enlightenment or learned decisions in which have effected them in Angelic Hierarchy or status of loyalty or dejection from the paradigm or service to the Creator.

I wanted to see what you guys think on this.

I personally feel that while incarnated, the great majority of us have very limited knowledge or memory of our past lives and therefore really cannot make lasting or important decisions. It's like being five years old and having an odd and deranged view of the world that Shaolin Monks have tunnel series throughout the world to pop up anywhere and that Aliens are going to start coming down and writing us tickets for polluting the planet, and then deciding on a goal and career in life that shall supersede and take precedence over whatever it is that you learn down the road as a legally binding path.

I don't think the accumulated wisdom of a life as a Human living on Earth in the physical realm can begin to make conjecture as to what is right and wrong to do as an immortal and divine Creation in the Service of the Creator, nor can the Creator be directly reached for comment.

From my limited perspective, I'd like to say a few things.

The results of what happens when one leaves here depend largely on how one feels about what happened here when one returns to one's self. I personally believe you can die cursing God and if, once free of the body you come to your senses that God isn't going to kick you to the curb. I don't want to compare my current state of existence to being on heavy mental meds but let's face it--- compared to being at Home, in my own form with all my faculties intact and my memory complete---I'm on drugs. YUP. Scary ones. I'm not saying we might not have to discuss a few things, but my final thought being "eat shit and die Michael" isn't going to permanently sever my relationship with him. Because it isn't my final thought---and yeah---drugs.

I do think the Creator can be reached for comment. I think that's where we disagree. I just don't think one incarnate saying to another "Oh, yeah, you're going straight to hell" is to be believed or appropriate.

In Heaven an angel is nobody in particular.
- George Bernard Shaw
2010-03-26 23:04
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Seraphyna
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Post: #3
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
Well, I'm here to be human...as such I don't believe that anything I do while incarnate will have any bearing on my "status" when I'm angel-me again *shrug*.

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"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost."-Tolkien
"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."-Poe
2010-03-27 0:00
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boyd
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Post: #4
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
When I think of how human decisions can affect your angelic status, I just think, "ok, why am I human to start with?". There are many reasons for many different angels as to why they're here, but one of them would probably be to learn something. If you go throughout your life determined not to learn anything whatsoever from this life, then probably the effect on your angelic status is, you'll just come back human yet again as opposed to your true angelic form to begin the lesson all over again. Your decisions affect you, I believe, but it's more like "you didn't make the right decision, try again" than changing your ultimate place in the mix of thing, which you could see as affecting your angelic status, as it delays you from assuming your true form.
Not learning these lessons could also really suck, as in the meantime you may accumulate bad karma in avoiding these lessons, and the lesson could get tougher the second or third time around than the first, which could become Hell on Earth......if you happen to believe angels can accumulate karma (which Terro once said he believed they could not, though I disagree with that, or perhaps I misunderstood what he meant somehow).
Actually, it just occurred to me that perhaps a lesson for incarnation may be the act of failing to learn lessons, to better identify with humans, you know? I mean, an angel looks at a heroin user, goes, yeah, that feels pretty good, but it's pretty stupid in the long run, you know it, I know it, so why're you doing it you dumbass? On the other hand, angel goes down, adopts human limitations, makes the mistake of becoming a heroin user, or something like that, upon becoming an angel again that angel may be like, "damn.......being human's hard".
"I don't think the accumulated wisdom of a life as a Human living on Earth in the physical realm can begin to make conjecture as to what is right and wrong to do as an immortal and divine Creation in the Service of the Creator"
Perhaps it's not the level of accumulated wisdom you acquire in this world.....but learning what it's like to not have that wisdom. Pretty difficult to imagine being blind till you spend a day blindfolded. Would it not be beneficial to learn how to deal with problems from the perspective of the person who has the problems? Personally, if I was depressed to the point of suicide, and some bright and happy person came in and said, "you should totally chill out, life's not that bad, silly!" I'd be like....."go away, you have no idea what this is like". Better to have someone who understands, and I don't see how an angel in Heaven could understand such human things, without being human first. So in that respect, yeah, your experiences here and the decisions you make and the lessons you learn could affect your angelic duties.
2010-03-27 2:03
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Anetiel
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Post: #5
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
I personally think that your official "rank" can't change, but maybe your job does. Like what boyd said, I don't think the point of incarnation is to gain wisdom, but to learn what it's like to go without it.
But I also believe there's a point in knowing that you're an angel while incarnated...I'm just not sure what that point is...

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2010-03-27 23:51
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Terro
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Post: #6
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
I agree with a lot of what is said, and actually as much as I have the same fundamental qualms with equating Human incarnation to being under the influence of heavy drugs, I see exactly where Kiera is coming from. To be Human is many times to be stripped of most of the things that make an Angel what it is, including direct knowledge and wisdom gained over a vast expanse of time and experience.

What I feel is that making decisions believed to effect your Angelic status while here is a Human is a bit naive. I do feel very much in agreement with what Boyd said on the concept of understanding why we are here. It may be with purpose but it also may be with the intention of learning. In making decisions or experiencing life without the benefit of such garnered wisdom would gain one a lot of wisdom, as well as grant insight into the lives and actions of other beings.

So what I see as specifically changing Angelic status is this. If one were to wake up and decide that they don't like the Creator, or decide that service is bad (which I feel is largely motivated by an ignorant view influenced by a dislike of Human religion rather than a view of the Creator in most cases), they can Fall from grace. I think for the same reasons that Kiera stated about God not really getting in a hissy fit because of the ignorance caused by what we analogize to being a drug induced state, that such decisions are short lived and not binding. I also believe that Falling is a very, very serious matter and includes literally being severed from the source in an excruciatingly painful and hollowing process.

Part of this comes into my belief as to why Angels are not in the Karmic cycle the same as most other beings. I believe that Angels are divine in nature and are connected directly to the Creator of the realms and of the karmic cycle. If I were to equate existence and all that is to a computer. The Creator would be the architect who put it together and wrote almost all the programming parameters. The Angels would be the Creation of that architect for the purpose of maintaining the computer and its programming, everything from virus protection to spam guard and so on and so forth. Anything else in the computer as part of the programming would then go through the programming making decisions and actions which would either garner positive value or reduce karma. Angels would not be subject to this as they are an extension of the architect. The act of Falling however would be for the Angel to part from its purpose and abandon that which the architect built it for, the Architect would sever its connection and let it go. In which case it may become part of the programming but more importantly would no longer have the "administrator" access it had prior.

Stripping away that "administrator" access is stripping away a core property to the Angel's essence, and as such is quite life changing and painful. Part of my reasoning for the existence of "Hell" is that when the Morning Star Fell into the void of what had not been created yet but was just open and empty space with ambient energy, his will and anguish was so great that he created a manifestation of his feelings of rage and betrayal which befits the classical images.

In agreement with Anetiel, knowing that you are an Angel, or at least believing it or having some inclination to it would then give a person insight or connection to a purpose that they might have been charged with while here (if such exists), or theoretically is designed in order to color memories with that concept so as to be more pertinent an experience to be remembered once one has gone back to being an Angel in full status. The other possibility is that knowing you an Angel is a fluke or is overflow of your essence into who you are now. The same as any other past life memory or kinship any Otherkin has. Being here strips us of a lot of our wisdom but it cannot change who we are at a core value. If who one is, is an Angel, then it is a part of you no matter what.

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2010-03-31 17:09
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Qarael
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Post: #7
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
I reckon, if you say in this life, "I'm not going back", and on passing from this life, you stick to that conviction, you may as well have changed your status in human life. If you're not going to change your mind on the final episode of "This Was Your Life!", then it's fair to say your mind was made up from the very first moment you made that declaration of epic splittitude.

I also reckon that, while it may be at least somewhat rare for your official status to change based on decisions made in this life while you're living it, the way you are thought of by your peers can change -- the old "I heard so and so is doing this and that" gossip crap -- which is still a "status change" of sorts, and can lead to worse damage, if the grapevine gets too buzzy with hearsay, assumptions, and gross misunderstandings of what is actually going on.

At any rate, this isn't a free-for-all, here. We can and will be held accountable for everything we do here, just like everyone else. And just like everyone else, if we jack it all up to a mind-boggling degree, we will be just as severely punished as anyone else. Being who we are is not a get-out-of-jail-free card by any degree.

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2010-04-01 4:35
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Kiera
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Post: #8
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
Qarael Wrote:I reckon, if you say in this life, "I'm not going back", and on passing from this life, you stick to that conviction, you may as well have changed your status in human life. If you're not going to change your mind on the final episode of "This Was Your Life!", then it's fair to say your mind was made up from the very first moment you made that declaration of epic splittitude.

I also reckon that, while it may be at least somewhat rare for your official status to change based on decisions made in this life while you're living it, the way you are thought of by your peers can change -- the old "I heard so and so is doing this and that" gossip crap -- which is still a "status change" of sorts, and can lead to worse damage, if the grapevine gets too buzzy with hearsay, assumptions, and gross misunderstandings of what is actually going on.

At any rate, this isn't a free-for-all, here. We can and will be held accountable for everything we do here, just like everyone else. And just like everyone else, if we jack it all up to a mind-boggling degree, we will be just as severely punished as anyone else. Being who we are is not a get-out-of-jail-free card by any degree.


I didn't mean to imply there wouldn't be consequences and we wouldn't have to deal with them... Never intended to. I'm just saying it's different. My experience is that I'm my own worst judge. I will damn myself for someone things that no one else would---and YES, I do mean DAMN myself. I will sentence myself to penance God doesn't even think is appropriate depending on what I did---and while Father has been known to say "Whoa!" to these things on more than one occasion, if I insist loudly enough (this goes for others as well) he is apt to tell me to have it my way whether he likes it or not.

I think a lot of other people are the same way---human and angel---we think up the most grandiose punishments ourselves.

In Heaven an angel is nobody in particular.
- George Bernard Shaw
2010-04-01 16:41
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boyd
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Post: #9
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
I agree with Qarael. Human may not know as much as angel, but we can indeed be quite wise, and as such are accountable, and like it or not, at the moment we're human, subject to all or most of the limitations entailed by that. I don't think angels are free of karma.......if they're doing their job, that just means they're not doing anything to build up bad karma, it doesn't mean immunity to it.
2010-04-01 16:46
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Qarael
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Post: #10
Re: Decisions in this life effecting Angelic or Celestial status
Kiera Wrote:I think a lot of other people are the same way---human and angel---we think up the most grandiose punishments ourselves.
Pshew, I'll drink to that. At least, I know I do have a habit of making a mildly unpleasant situation seem entirely catastrophic at first, slathering two gallons of icing on my very own pity-party doom-cake before I can actually think well enough to sit down and be rational.

Good news is, I have all that cake to enjoy after it. I mean, hell... if I'm wrong about my thoughts, then I get the joy of knowing I'm safe from being wrong again. I'd hate to think anyone would deny me that joy, these thoughts, or my own life's-journey, just because they think I should've never been 'wrong' to begin with. Honestly, that sort life-denying busybody should really sit back and reevaluate their own selves, and figure out why they're so afraid of how other people conduct their personal lives.

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2010-04-01 19:58
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