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Culture (split from American Otherkin)
Taiaka
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Post: #1
Culture (split from American Otherkin)
Fair_Fanged touched on some of the theories that hold true to me. But overall, Americans are devoid of culture and have an unsettling habit of appropriating the mythos of other cultures to fill in the gaps and to find individuality.

"Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity." -Arthur Schopenhauer


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2009-03-29 18:36
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Archer
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Post: #2
Re: American Otherkin
Taiaka Wrote:Fair_Fanged touched on some of the theories that hold true to me. But overall, Americans are devoid of culture

*stops looking at photos of architecture from last holiday in New York, turns off Bob Dylan CD, removes The Grapes of Wrath from reading list and decides never having seen Citizen Kane is nothing to be ashamed of*

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

Quote:"I have suffered from being misunderstood, but I would have suffered a hell of a lot more if I had been understood."

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2009-03-29 22:51
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Motley
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Post: #3
Re: American Otherkin
Archer Wrote:
Taiaka Wrote:Fair_Fanged touched on some of the theories that hold true to me. But overall, Americans are devoid of culture

*stops looking at photos of architecture from last holiday in New York, turns off Bob Dylan CD, removes The Grapes of Wrath from reading list and decides never having seen Citizen Kane is nothing to be ashamed of*

Don't forget Elvis, Rock and Roll, air and space flight, and cheap commercialism! We just don't gripe when people take our stuff. But they seem to gripe when they steal it. Bwahahaha!

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"I inherited the spirit of the sun. I'll meet you when the day breaks through. It's time to shine and make all your dreams come true. Come on, wish upon a dog star!" -Hybrid
2009-03-29 22:55
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Taiaka
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Post: #4
Re: American Otherkin
Mock what I said however you wish, but tell me how many teenagers read Steinbeck or even know who Bob Dylan is. America is a country of immigrants who killed off their native peoples, a young country with a hodgepodge of wild traditions and no common ground. All those examples you cite of culture? None goes further back than, what, 1920? Compare that with the Chinese dynasties or Incan architechture and get back to me, yah? The one lesson they need to learn is humility, and the 3 minutes of America's cultural history did not give them their assumed superiority. Yes, it would be best to exalt the good parts of their culture, but instead they stand behind a handful of examples like a frail madrigal.

"Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity." -Arthur Schopenhauer


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2009-03-30 0:28
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Archer
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Post: #5
Re: American Otherkin
Taiaka Wrote:Mock what I said however you wish, but tell me how many teenagers read Steinbeck or even know who Bob Dylan is.

I'd say the same is true for equivalents in the UK and Ireland as well.

Quote:America is a country of immigrants who killed off their native peoples, a young country with a hodgepodge of wild traditions and no common ground. All those examples you cite of culture? None goes further back than, what, 1920? Compare that with the Chinese dynasties or Incan architechture and get back to me, yah?

Certainly, the USA is a relatively young country (my former regular pub is older than the USA). It would indeed by a very valid point to say that the USA's culture - or perhaps more specifically history - is young. But that is a far cry from saying that "overall, Americans are devoid of culture".

In fact if we're using a general description of culture - as opposed to just privaleged items (eg cannon literature) - then all TV and music is culture and as such I would argue that many Americans engage in a hell of a lot more culture than equivalent Europeans.

Quote:The one lesson they need to learn is humility

I find it absolutely hilarious that you insult Americans en masse and then claim they need to learn humility. Eye, plank. Plank, eye.

Every country has good aspects and every country has bad aspects. To claim that Americans "overall" are "devoid of culture" is a sweeping and extreme generalisation that has so far lacked any support from you. I don't think that comparing American culture to, say, Chinese is very useful because the societies in general vary very widely. So, picking (probably) the two most similar countries, can you explain to me how the USA is "devoid" of culture as compared to Canada or the UK?

As for appropriating the mythos of other cultures - groups of humans have been doing this for a very long time indeed. Look at the Christianisation of pagan beliefs (or the paganisation of Christian beliefs?) as Christianity spread through Europe. Or how Rome "borrowed" ideas from Greece. Or the relationships between Mesoamerican cultures.

As a Northern Irish person (who is considering getting an Irish passport - at which point I'll stop bitching if people call me Irish) with Scottish heritage, my culture is indeed one of the ones that gets appropriated most often. And you know what? While I often think it's ridiculous, sometimes even offensive, it doesn't damage my culture one bit but it certainly enriches the lives of those that "appropriate" it.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

Quote:"I have suffered from being misunderstood, but I would have suffered a hell of a lot more if I had been understood."

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2009-03-30 2:03
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Taiaka
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Post: #6
Re: American Otherkin
*shrugs* You're right, Archer....I just don't give a shit. My bad for having an opinion I can't support up to your twatlike standards. *cackles*

screw it, ban me. Its not worth it.

"Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity." -Arthur Schopenhauer


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2009-03-30 2:52
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Archer
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Post: #7
Re: American Otherkin
Taiaka Wrote:*shrugs* You're right, Archer....I just don't give a shit. My bad for having an opinion I can't support up to your twatlike standards. *cackles*

Everyone has the right to post their opinion. Everyone else has the right to agree or disagree and ask for reasons why that opinion is held.

If you want to make sweeping, prejudiced, generalisations like "overall, Americans are devoid of culture", and provide neither evidence nor explanation, it's not surprising that someone might disagree. In fact if you are surprised that I disagreed, and if you are surprised at the nature of my disagreement, I am absolutely amazed.

If you thought that making such a sweeping, prejudiced generalisation about any country would just slip by without anyone taking issue, then that's kinda odd.

Quote:screw it, ban me. Its not worth it.

Despite your unprovoked personal attack on me, I don't see anything ban-worthy in any of your comments - there have been no formal complaints thus far. Rather than requesting a ban, if you don't want to be a part of the forum you can simply stop posting. You most definitely will not get a ban just on the basis of a request.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

Quote:"I have suffered from being misunderstood, but I would have suffered a hell of a lot more if I had been understood."

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2009-03-30 3:08
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Motley
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Post: #8
Re: American Otherkin
The Chinese, Natives peoples and Incans dealt with starvation, violence, and disease on a regular basis. And you can bet that the Incan architects did not pay minimum wage or provide a retirement plan to those who built their temples.

Yes, Tai Chi is a beautiful art going back 500 years, with roots going back far longer than that. You know why it was invented and why they worked so damn hard at it? Because a group of farmers got fed up of being taken advantage of, stolen from and killed, and there was no one to help them so they had to help themselves.

The 'good old days' never existed. A lot of people worked their butts off so that our children could be spoiled enough to take it all for granted.

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2009-03-30 4:38
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Post: #9
Re: American Otherkin
Haven't I seen this "culture void" of America in core shamanism somewhere? Feels like deja' vu with this complaint.

White, middle-class Americans don't think they have a culture, but that's only because they're living in it and taking it for granted. Of course they're not going to notice things that they've seen all their lives, compared to seeing the beautiful, foreign monuments and arts in a class or on TV.

But it's still there. Just have to step back and look at things more neutrally to see it; it'll be harder to do so when disgust is overtaking the vision.
2009-03-30 18:14
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Selana
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Post: #10
Re: American Otherkin
Taiaka, are you American?
If so, I challenge you to come and live in Europe for, oh, six years or so and see how you feel then.
Just because you can't name any intellectuals/writers of note who lived prior to 1920 doesn't mean there weren't any. (Nathaniel Hawthorne anyone?)
More to the point: what does age matter? Does having some 'tradition' or some cultural achievement that goes back to 1800's make a place culturally superior? How does being recent make something less worthy?

I would ask you respectfully to keep your Anti-American sentiments off kin forums. Some of us get enough of that in our daily lives.
2009-03-31 9:29
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