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Control
Chris
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Post: #1
Control
So I have this friend who's a psychologist from the University of Glasgow, and we were talking about DID/multiples, and he said something that contradicts what some of you say on here;

Chris ѠѠ says (16:52):
Is it possible for 2 or more of the personalities to be in control at the same time? I'd assume that would give the body an epileptic fit or something, due to the electricity in the brain....
I am the Sun, the joining has begun says (16:52):
No, it is not
I am the Sun, the joining has begun says (16:53):
That is called schizophrenia and entirely different
Chris ѠѠ says (16:53):
oh, I see.
I am the Sun, the joining has begun says (16:53):
You cant have two personalities in control at the same time
It's like trying to fill a glass with two pints


So what are your opinions on this?
2008-12-21 17:02
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Motley
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Post: #2
Re: Control
He can call is schizophrenia if he wants to. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

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2008-12-21 18:32
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House Hesson
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Post: #3
Re: Control
Schizophrenia is a completely unrelated thing: There is generally one person in the body, but that person may hear voices. I assume that's what he's talking about.

Schizophrenia is also a controversial diagnosis; there are some professionals who feel it's been used as a dumping ground for many different symptoms that we can't necessarily say are part of the same disorder, just so that there's a diagnosis that clinicians can use for all these leftovers. (This was told to us by one of our psych profs; sadly, I don't have a text source for it, or even remember which prof.) Our behavioral psych prof also shared with us the theory that schizophrenics start out acting outrageously by choice, and it becomes pathological after they find that they can consistently get attention for it. In that case, there wouldn't even be any real fake voices.

Multiplicity is also controversial in the psych community, Some professionals believe it doesn't exist at all, and the alters of all of the patients diagnosed with MPD/DID were created by therapist suggestion - like the memories of Satanic ritual abuse that are so associated with the sensationalized MPD/DID case studies of the 80's. Considering that MPD/DID diagnoses are far more common with some clinicians than with others, we would not be surprised if at least some of them are indeed fabricated (or created...which is perhaps a horse of a different color).

Others believe it's only kosher if it follows the diagnostic criteria, which are based on clinicians' experience with those who have come to a clinician because they can't properly function. To point out one specific criterion that gave us a headache when we were trying to figure ourselves out, it's not clinically-correct MPD/DID unless most-to-all of the personalities are unaware of each other; there may be an "Inner Self Helper" who is aware of everything, but that's it. Scientifically speaking, that's no proof that there are not other types of multiplicity; it's only proof that those who bring it up as a problem, and are taken seriously, fit a certain profile.

Obviously, my system believes that the psychological community needs to enlarge its data set. Our own psychologist, on the one occasion that we awkwardly brought up feeling like more than one, believed that we needed more experience allowing our"self" to cycle through all of its diversity without any of that being stifled by ourselves or others trying to fit us into a mold. One friend, who I believe is on this board, has said he could detect our switches by a change in our energy before we gave any overt indication with them - but like any energy reading, this could be unconsciously picking up on some non-energetic signal.

We do acknowledge that we could be wrong, but we're also not going to change our personal model of what's going on in our brain unless another model makes more sense to us - whether our current one becomes less credible, or another one becomes more credible than it currently is.

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2008-12-21 18:45
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House Hesson
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Post: #4
Re: Control
Motley Wrote:He can call is schizophrenia if he wants to. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

We've seen a clinician quoted as saying, "I'll call a kid a zebra if it means I can get him the help he needs." Lack of objective test usage (diagnosing a mental illness isn't like taking a blood test to see if your blood sugar is off), insurance's demands regarding diagnostic criteria, and biases on the people who are actually writing the diagnostic criteria (see my prior post, not to mention psychopharmaceutical companies' bribery) make the clinical side of psych a very messy thing.

But we're also biased; even if we thought we'd make a good clinician, we wouldn't wade into that mess. We'll stick with experimental psych, thankyouverymuch.

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2008-12-21 18:49
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Miniar
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Post: #5
Re: Control
It's not a question of co-fronting, but two separate individuals both controlling at the same time.. picture a car with two wheels, two sets of pedals, and two gearboxes, but only one engine. If one person turns the wheel, then the car turns, if the other person turns his wheel back to compensate, then you're likely to damage the part that turns the wheel...
When multiples co-front, then I see no problem there unless they're arguing that both of 'em are walking at the same time..

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2008-12-21 19:20
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Post: #6
Re: Control
(copy and pasted form OKA)

Me and Sarah will do a sort of co-fronting at times, not much anymore because we'll each have ideas of what to do that contradict one another so we'll end up just standing there, arguing about what to do. Of course, we're not two separate personalities, we're two separate beings--we don't have DID.

I think it's possible for them to both co-front without going into overload.

A lot of the sciences are controversial and always will be, no matter how much proof than give--people just aren't willing to believe. It'd probably help with the sciences were a touch nicer in saying what they have to (I really hope that made sense).

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2008-12-21 19:58
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Post: #7
Re: Control
Shangrila Wrote:Of course, we're not two separate personalities, we're two separate beings--we don't have DID.

Either way, it's all running on the same "hardware." We experience definite cognitive limits; more than two awake at a time, and abilities start getting lost. We're not really aware of who is moving the body, but higher cognitive abilities start going bye-bye unless some of those awake people are only watching or just awake long enough to toss out a comment and then leave again. We're also more likely to "blend" - enter a state of consciousness that's not clearly one or another, but a mixture of the reactions and thinking patterns of whoever's involved. Which doesn't seem surprising, given the neural network model of cognition: It's not like a physical system where there's a set number of controls; the same neurons can fire as a result of an obscenely high number of different stimulus sets.

It's still a question of whether systems - self-discovered or diagnosed - are really experiencing what they feel they're experiencing, which Svanni already addressed earlier in the thread.

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2008-12-21 20:27
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Post: #8
Re: Control
First up, I'm on my phone so I can't make a long post - but the friend who had some confusion about multiple mental states clearly knows little about the topic and less about abnormal psychology in general.

I'll post in more detail when I get access to a computer.

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2008-12-21 23:06
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Post: #9
Re: Control
This was never an issue for my system.

We thought of/experienced our headspace as a kind of control room/apartment sitting on the top floor of the body. We each had our own "rooms", as well as our own "pilot chairs". In order to have the closest thing to "alone time" that we could manage, the party wishing to be alone visualized himself walking into his "room" and closing the door. The rest of the time, during waking hours, we all sat in our respective "pilot chairs", but only one chair at a time was capable of controlling the body. Iago had the ability to "override" the controls of another chair if necessary but this only happened two or three times and in extreme circumstances. Other than that, it was impossible for two chairs to have active controls at once. I imagine that if two or more control chairs were active at once that the body would simply not respond to any of them but we never tried because we figured it was just courteous not to invade the other's fronting time.

As far as what your friend has to say, Svanni said everything that I wanted to in response. =]

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2008-12-22 1:03
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Post: #10
Re: Control
Littlechris Wrote:So I have this friend who's a psychologist from the University of Glasgow

Okay, back at my computer. First up, I really hope you mean your friend is a psychology student and not an actual psychologist, because he is way off base on some really basic things.

I'll just quickly comment on what the two of you said.

Quote: Is it possible for 2 or more of the personalities to be in control at the same time? I'd assume that would give the body an epileptic fit or something, due to the electricity in the brain....

An epileptic fit has absolutely nothing to do with personality. While partial seizures do indeed cause perceptual changes (had a few of them myself recently), one's awareness or state of mind changing is entirely different from one's "personality" (in the sense of multiple identities) changing.

Quote: No, it is not
That is called schizophrenia and entirely different

This just made me go wtf . . . I'd expect any educated 15 year old to know the basic differences between schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder. That someone apparently studying psychology in a reputable university doesn't is absolutely terrifying!

Schizophrenia is a mental illness characterised by such things as hallucations, delusions, paranoia, and irrational behaviour. It is not related in any way to more than one personality/aspect being conscious or aware. That's just nonsense.

Dissociative identity disorder is a mental illness characterised by periods of, simply put, dissociation. This is immediately different from "multiples" in that multiples, for the most part, do not seem to dissociate often.

Quote:So what are your opinions on this?

Your friend is an idiot who needs some remedial studies, pretty damn quick.

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2008-12-23 0:04
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