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Contradicting Beliefs
chaitea
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Post: #1
Contradicting Beliefs
Let’s face it, we all have a lot of beliefs that either don’t make sense, or even add up (especially when you throw in an inhuman soul of sorts).
And while not necessarily being fluffy, they can still be quite confusing or even obnoxious.

Sadly, a fun little trick many seem to lack is the ability to not own identify these, but fess up to ‘em.

So what are the cracks in your wall of spirituality and/or belief systems?
And as an optional question: how do you deal with it or justify it?

Some examples from religious texts
(and there are a whole lot more where these came from):

The Bible:
Quote:ON SEEING GOD
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30

"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18

The Torah:
Quote:Exodus 12:40 states “The habitation of the Children of Israel during which they dwelled in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.”

This verse clearly contradicts Exodus 6:18-20 which states that Kohath lived 133 years and Amram lived 137 years. Kohath came to Egypt with Jacob (Genesis 46:11). Moses, the son of Amram, died at the age of 120 (Deut. 34:7), which was 40 years after the Exodus, making Moses 80 years old at the time of Exodus. Therefore the Egyptian exile could not have lasted more than 350 years. (In fact, according to the Talmudic tradition, it lasted only 210 years.)

The Qur'an:
Quote:1.What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
A."Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
B."We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
C."The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
D."But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
E."He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

As for some of my own:
I’m very adamant about having only lived what ever lives I had on Earth. Not to say I don’t believe there is life elsewhere, just that from what I think I know I have only ever known this planet.
Problem with that: There’s a whole lot of valid evidence here that points to dragons having never physically existed here. So there I am a bit hung up since if what I believe is true, there would have been more then enough evidence left behind from my draconic life here then would ever be needed to prove that dragons were quite physically about.

And just to prove an early statement: Come to think of it, I can’t really recall any more contradictions in my beliefs (at least right now). Hopefully I’ll be able to pick out some more later.
(I know they’re there, if half of what I say usually doesn’t make sense, then I can’t give to much credit to most of what I believe)

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2008-03-31 18:10
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Xanthus
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Post: #2
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
chaitea Wrote:I’m very adamant about having only lived what ever lives I had on Earth. Not to say I don’t believe there is life elsewhere, just that from what I think I know I have only ever known this planet.
Problem with that: There’s a whole lot of valid evidence here that points to dragons having never physically existed here. So there I am a bit hung up since if what I believe is true, there would have been more then enough evidence left behind from my draconic life here then would ever be needed to prove that dragons were quite physically about.

And just to prove an early statement: Come to think of it, I can’t really recall any more contradictions in my beliefs (at least right now). Hopefully I’ll be able to pick out some more later.
(I know they’re there, if half of what I say usually doesn’t make sense, then I can’t give to much credit to most of what I believe)
Remember, lack of evidence is not an evidence of lacking. <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->

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2008-03-31 18:38
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Archer
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Post: #3
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
chaitea Wrote:Let’s face it, we all have a lot of beliefs that either don’t make sense, or even add up (especially when you throw in an inhuman soul of sorts).

I don't think I do. For me "awakening" is largely a process of providing a coherent, contradiction-free explanation for and description of who and what I am.

There are ideas I have that are not fully fleshed out, that are a first instinct and probably need to be revised; but to say that "we all have a lot of beliefs that either don't make sense, or even add up" is IMO incorrect . . . but if someone is in that position it would be a good reason to question in detail everything they do believe.

Ubi Dubium, Ibi Libertas

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2008-03-31 23:59
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jonesbeachchick
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Post: #4
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
For your first two examples, (for the first) I figure he was speaking metaphorically with "face to face" (esp. since God {unless you count Jesus IMOP doesn't really have a face}) for the second, times and ages are all messed up in the Bible, but I don't feel that they matter to the overall message that much.

Contradictions in my own beliefs? Well I believe that God knowingly had a plan when he created (at the very least) the opportunity for sin and dissent and evil. Some people say a perfect God wouldn't do that, I disagree (although it and other things in the Bible make 'Him' seem imperfect and mean). I'm also kinda torn on the free will thing, I don't know if humans have free will, the whole notion seems kinda far fetched to me, personally I'm kinda used to the idea of a limited free will, you obey or you don't; and God knows everything so 'He' knows what you'll do anyway so what's the point? (But then again a perfect God wouldn't force people to live lives and 'fail' just for 'His' own amusement would 'He'?) and sure there are a lot more examples, but that's what Faith is, you do your best to accept everything even if you can't understand it.
2008-04-01 3:27
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Rusala
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Post: #5
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
jonesbeachchick Wrote:(But then again a perfect God wouldn't force people to live lives and 'fail' just for 'His' own amusement would 'He'?)

Why not? It's not like he's got someone to say to him, "You be nice to those little humans and give them redemption or no supper!" I mean, if he's all powerful, it's probably some petty reason that drives us to act out this little play of his for nothing more than his own personal puppet show.

Mine are incomplete, I know they're incomplete. What I believe about this world is two major guidelines that:
1) Free will is absolute. Good and evil are simply a matter of perspective because there isn't a serial killer or war criminal who didn't believe he was doing the 'right thing'. It sucks, it's too cruel at times but I truly believe in free will. I understand the feelings of those who want to believe an all knowing being is guiding us because this world can be cruel in the ways our lives go and if it is a part of a greater plan, then so be it. I just said my beliefs are incomplete so I may have to change it but I have yet to find proof enough for me.

2)The four elements of air, water, earth and fire are the base for understanding the world around us. I think that the four elements if understood properly are a guideline for this world.

The specifics I'm sorting out slowly but I do have a number of smaller beliefs that conflict I'm trying to sort out.

One of which is the belief that there are many gods. Cause I don't understand how a 'god' is defined I still think there are many higher forces that simply try to discourage each other from attacking to gain whatever a god is interested in. Truthfully, I see it like this:

Judeo-Christian g-d: I've got millions of followers!
Buddha: I've got thousands of souls that found inner peace.....Ommmmm.....
Thor (Walks by): You know what I've got....
Shiva (Walks next to Thor): One tiny hammer, ha!
Etc.....

"A dragon's wisdom is free but for the respect you pay in asking for it."
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2008-04-01 22:40
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RKCoon
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Post: #6
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
Ive personally yet to see any religion not contradict itself.
2008-04-01 23:03
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Taiaka
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Post: #7
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
Archer Wrote:I don't think I do. For me "awakening" is largely a process of providing a coherent, contradiction-free explanation for and description of who and what I am.

That pretty much sums it up for me too. Though I wouldn't call my beliefs a religion, merely a faith.

Tai

"Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity." -Arthur Schopenhauer


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2008-04-01 23:26
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Nic
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Post: #8
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
RKCoon Wrote:Ive personally yet to see any religion not contradict itself.

Have you looked at any religion 1) that hasn't been affected or influenced by monotheism, and 2) that you've looked at outside of the monotheistic paradigm the modern world uses to examine things?

Also contradictions only occur if one looks and takes the tenets of a belief as both literal and mutually exclusive (i.e., A and B cannot be concurrent as they are both literally necessary while having different and potentially opposing natures; however, nothing in reality states that they cannot be concurrent. Here's an example: can a solid and a liquid coexist in the same space at the same time? Common sense says no. But then what are glass, mayonnaise, gelatin and plastic?).

And should it be that we shall never meet again,
Know that I will always keep you in my heart,
And I will search for you in that time beyond time
Until we do meet again, and you will know
That love and family are the miracles of the world.
2008-04-02 18:01
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Post: #9
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
Nic Wrote:Also contradictions only occur if one looks and takes the tenets of a belief as both literal and mutually exclusive (i.e., A and B cannot be concurrent as they are both literally necessary while having different and potentially opposing natures; however, nothing in reality states that they cannot be concurrent. Here's an example: can a solid and a liquid coexist in the same space at the same time? Common sense says no. But then what are glass, mayonnaise, gelatin and plastic?).
There are things that exist on a scale (viscosity is one, common sense says - not everything is as hard, oh and the theory that glass isn't proper hard has been disproven), then there are things that are not.
Yes some contradictions can bee seen as misunderstandings based on the assumption that they're both literal and mutually exclusive. Some contradictions are just undeniable though.
_

For me, I am a walking duality. My emotions contradict themselves half the time. Just last night I was incredibly happy and deeply depressed at the same time.
I don't think I have a lot of contradicting beliefs, I can't think of any right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if I found out that I did.

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2008-04-02 18:28
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Post: #10
Re: Contradicting Beliefs
This is interesting though, especially if we're ultimately talking about the exclusiveness of the contradictions we're talking about. I mean, wouldn't it be a fine line to walk? On one side, you don't want to appropreate rules that may not apply and on the other, you don't want to say 'sod off rules, I'm the god of my universe!'. There's a need to be amongst the majority, however slight, that pings our beliefs against the cloak of dogma. In the rebelion we find the questions and grow into whatever we grow into. What would be an undeniable contridiction to one's personal faith? What are you basing the misunderstanding on? Because unless that has hard evidence to the contrary, its back to who believes it more, no?

-Tai

"Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity." -Arthur Schopenhauer


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2008-04-02 23:56
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