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Both and shifting gender
HannaTrinity
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Post: #1
Both and shifting gender
Ok I'm wondering something. For those of you who put down both or shifting for you gender I'm wondering why you did. I'll star things off.

The reason I chose both is that the physical body I inhabit is male. The spirit that was originally born into this body is male. I am female though. That's why I put both.

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2009-06-14 10:51
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Miniar
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Post: #2
Re: Both and shifting gender
both for me is.. a touch complicated.

I consider myself male, but at the same time, I don't really believe in gender outside of the sociological construct, and in spite of this, consider myself a transsexual, that is my body is female, my brain is male.
My past lives I've been both men and women, and originally I was born/made in a masculine form though I'm rather certain I had every capacity to take which sex I wanted.. being a shapeshifter and all.

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2009-06-14 12:23
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House Hesson
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Post: #3
Re: Both and shifting gender
Our system includes males, females, gender sliders (sometimes male, sometimes female), and one who's agendered.

-Shainin

"All knowledge is worth having." -Phedre no Delaunay

"Everything has a price." -Jaenelle Angelline

"I think if you try, that's being your best." -Echo
2009-06-14 14:49
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Malakoi
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Post: #4
Re: Both and shifting gender
I am physically female, I generally consider myself androgynous, but I experience certain shifts that include some interesting traits, including shifts in gender identity. I was also formerly part of a multiple system which included another being of shifting/nongender, as well as a third, male being and this has left some "imprints" on my phantom body, or something along those lines.

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2009-06-15 8:37
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momo
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Post: #5
Re: Both and shifting gender
HannaTrinity Wrote:Ok I'm wondering something. For those of you who put down both or shifting for you gender I'm wondering why you did.


We're a multiple system, with both male and female members. When Blake fronts, he still considers himself male (to a point where sometimes he's been surprised when catching our reflection in a mirror or window). When Rizumu and I front, we see ourselves as female, same as the body.

So, we shift gender. :3




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2009-06-15 11:09
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Terro
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Post: #6
Re: Both and shifting gender
alright, I'm going to be the jerk now, and I apologize in behalf for my beliefs. Let me first state that I do not disrespect anyone in this thread for their beliefs or call their beliefs wrong... however

My perceptive of gender has always been that it matters to what you are right now, regardless of what the spirit is or the past lives are, just as much as me saying that you I am Human now, I also say that I am male now (though Terro was male as far as I recall so it makes thing rather uncomplicated and I don't have personal experience with gender confusion).

Gender is more surface where spirit or soul is underneath, according to my belief.

Where this shifts are in cases where the personality views itself as a different gender, to take what momo said (just because it's the last post and I'm staring at it above my quick reply box), blake is somewhat surprised occasionally when seeing the reflection, however at the same time, the reflection is still female, regardless of what Blake is.

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2009-06-18 13:51
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HannaTrinity
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Post: #7
Re: Both and shifting gender
Terro, there's no need for you to apologize. Your beliefs are your beliefs. You're not being a jerk for expressing them.

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2009-06-18 21:09
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House Hesson
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Post: #8
Re: Both and shifting gender
I mostly or completely agree, Terro; I'm just not entirely clear on one thing based on your words.

Sex is determined by what the chromosomes and the sex organs are. Gender is determined by identification with a particular gender concept or category.

For Blake, or Shang, or anyone else living in a body that does not match up with the person's gender, that person's perception of self still determines gender. Current perception, not what that person feels zie used to be, which I understood to be your meaning - but also not current genetic or genital characteristics. (Awkward wording. But I was trying hard to avoid the word "biology" there - what happens in the brain is also governed by biology even if it's not singing the same tune as the rest of the body.)

Experiences before this life could influence a gender-flexible brain to lean toward a particular, set identity. So could the organs and hormones. So could socialization. But I also don't think that souls or past lives dictate gender, any more than organs and hormones do, or socialization does. (The track record for treating gender as merely a social construct is not too good.)

-Shainin

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2009-06-18 22:40
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Terro
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Post: #9
Re: Both and shifting gender
true, Hesson, it gets difficult to word some of these concepts and subjects.

To try and clarify, I'm one of those people that believes that your gender is what's on your driver's license. I believe that someone's sex and their gender are one and the same.

I believe that if a male is very feminine, then there are male. Taking an example of an extreme case, a transvestite male who wears dresses and heels and wears purses, I still see as male, they just happen to like things that we as a society designate as female.

In some cases there are transgendered conditions that arise as a result of hormonal or genital differences from one another giving biological traits from both sexes to the individual. This is where I feel the term transgendered is accurate.

I would say that if I am male, and had a female multiple that came out, that multiple might be female, but I am still male. Whatever the female is thinking or does is still coming out of a male.

I do not hold this belief only for multiples though. I also have disagreed in the past, mostly privately with individuals who claim a different gender as a result of a believed past life, I disagree with them saying there are of another gender on the same degree as I disagree with those who take offense to being classified as Human ("Don't degrade me by calling me Human, I am a Demon high lord" or some other such stereotypical fluffy retort). I believe that if a person is male, they are male, even if they believe their soul is female. I took the name Terro as my screen name here, based on my belief that it was at one time my Angelic name/title. However the person speaking to you on this forum is not an Angelic servant of the Creator, it's a gymnastics coach from New Jersey. If my believed Angelic Soul were female, the thoughts and words are still translated through a male body.

Long story short I see gender and sex as physical, and the soul as a perception.

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2009-06-19 2:26
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Malakoi
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Post: #10
Re: Both and shifting gender
I'm sorry, but I am actually quite offended. Perhaps, I shouldn't be. *shrug*

My gender identity, my physical sex, and the nature of my "soul" are all quite different.
My "soul" does not have a gender, or a sex. In theory, my "soul" is an animating spark of consciousness of some kind, and perhaps, the essential "core" that exists separately from my physical body (or, as a result of it, depending on your belief). I experience my "soul" as .. something like a well-spring of Will and Vitality, but there is no thought in it, and perhaps, only subtle feeling.
My gender identity exists as it does now as a result of my private and public battles against the social stereotyping of my physical sex, as well as a deep exploration into my own mind which revealed that all of the psychological and emotional qualities that we associate with gender exist in everyone. However, due to the fluctuating nature of those qualities within myself, I feel the need to express these changes by altering my gender presentation and thereby assuming a different, more appropriate stereotype. This is what I mean by "shifting". It is easier for me to allow these qualities free expression through gender-bending and cross-dressing (and a dozen other things! 0.o) than to accept the appearance of "female" all the time. I have long considered hormone therapy as well as potential surgery as a means to achieve a more comfortable balance in my permanent appearance. I wish it weren't so, but it is. =/
For you to claim at this point that my gender and my sex are the same would be nothing other than a denial of fact. *sigh* Or rather, since that won't necessarily be convincing "evidence", this is a passionate plea to be acknowledged as I am, rather than registered according to your personal beliefs.

I hope that I explained myself without being upsetting.

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2009-06-19 21:27
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