Freetha Wrote:...an identity needs to be questioned at least a little to be truly understood
Do you know what I don't get. Between my study of psychology, and psychological aspects in magick, why is it Otherkin think their identity is so simple? Ruling out all magick and past life stuff, most people never actually come to understand their identity. We live in a society that constantly batters us with new things to assimilate, rather than investigate. It takes years and years of hard dedication to really understand your identity, your personality, few ever really manage it, if any.
Why do Otherkin act like it is so easy? They're adding in past lives, and transspecies migration, which I think should complicate the matter, not simplify. On one hand, "dragon" is different than "a timidness created by your father's interaction with your older sister at your third birthday party", and perhaps more "pronounced" in flavour, but it's still another can of worms altogether.
Someone asked me why, as a "serious ceremonialist magickian"*, do I interact with Otherkin? My first response is usually "They question their identity to a greater degree" and yet, that's becoming less and less true of the community as a whole. Sure you can make arguments one way or another, about if questioning humanity is greater or lesser, than questioning tempers, social patterns, moral codings, etc. but the point is there is some questioning there, but it stops. "Something seems off...unhuman...what does it mean...could I be an elf? Yep, that's it...okay solved, everything in my life makes sense now, cause I'm an elf."
*They think I'm serious, I think I'm more an explorer.
Quote:Or is it that people are so afraid of being questioned that they do not ask questions for the fear that that would open them up to questioning?
An unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates
Granted, people who know me from other boards, chats, and to a lesser extent here, know I'm a huge fan of questions and questioning. I'm more afraid of people with "Answers" than I am of people with questions. Heck, you know (Freetha) that on another board we're on, I just started an Occaming topic, where I basically tell the relevant parts of my life for the last six years, and how it relates to my Otherkin identity, solely so that people can say "What made you think that?" "Why would you accept that as true?" "Did you consider X instead of Y?" etc. Obviously I don't think I'm perfect (well, I do, but that's in the processial perfection concept), but I don't get why there aren't more people willing to question themselves, or let people help them out, because sometimes we're too close to think of the really important questions. Hell, I was awake for years before someone finally asked "Does the blue tie into your identity?" "Oh...uh...hmm........"
Quote:One would think that the subject of one's identity is something serious enough to be approached with both caution and criticism. That it's serious enough so that you should avoid making shortcuts.
Sadly in general, that's not the way the western world is shaping up. Again, thinking of this relating to psychology, we're getting out of the model that problems can be solved by counselling, thinking, talking, creating, it's all now about pills, or one-hit-wonder sessions (I'll teach you to walk over hot coals, and it'll be like your priest never touched you there!).
Quote:Who are we doing a favour if we don't ask?
The answer is simple, ourselves.
Well I rarely do a soapboxy spiritual thing, this is a good point to do so. Are we actually doing ourselves a favour by not asking? No. If you want to look at is as Enlightenment from a Dharmic perspective, or from a Dhammic perspective, or doing our Will, or the Great Work, they all require us to know ourselves, and what we are really about, what we are really like inside. If we don't ask, we aren't helping ourselves, we're avoiding a little pain, and in the long run hurting everyone around us, most clearly ourselves.
Quote:Yes, I am aware that a few people do ask questions, but haven't you notice how most of the time these questions come with an apology?
I tend to apologize when I'm new somewhere, or with a new person. Not because I think I'm doing anything wrong, it's because I know some people are so sensitive with questioning. With me it's more of a professional habit, "I'm sorry to ask, I know you're sensitive about this, but tell me about your brother's suicide" etc. It's partly the professional in me, knowing that people take things to heart a lot, so excuse yourself, but do it, because in the end, you're helping them. But I also know where to draw the line. There is a difference between questioning, showing holes in logic/procedures, and just beating a dead horse. What I can't stand with questions is when people will contain the same point after the person they're questioning says "I don't know." When I see "I don't know" I either leave it alone, cause it's their time, or suggest ways for them to try to find. "Questions are the start of knowledge, answers the start of ignorance."
Now, my disclaimer. There are times when I do dislike being questioned, but that tends to be a jading. I've done a lot of introspective work, and had a lot of people take shots at me, that when I get questioned sometimes its "Oy, not again, been there done that." It tends mainly to happen on forums I've been on for a while, and probably answered everything elsewhere. But I always love a unique question.
Silyon Wrote:I'm actually more for questioning newcomers, just a good deal more gently than you would with the more "Senior" kin. If you let them go on a road that's hypocritical or doesn't make sense, it'll be that much harder to help pull them off it later on. Left unchecked, it could quite easily spiral down into one of those "king of the multi-verse!" type things, in a way turning a true kin into a fluff-ball.
*nods* I agree. Oldbies and newbies are different beasts, and should be treated so. When I question newer Kin, unless it's an extreme claim (they're the lynchpin for 2012, they've found one of the four horsemen in cave, real vampires are killing homeless people in their town etc) I generally stick to questions about the nature of their ideas. "What does that mean to you?" "What difference would this make?" "Why do you accept this?" "Can you question this?" The point at this stage isn't the holes in logic, or shaking their foundations, but just making sure they stay open-minded and rational as best as they can.
simim23 Wrote:It is up to YOU, and YOU alone to decide whether or not you are deluding yourself, and in the meantime I will try my best to make you think, drink, and sometimes see a shrink.
This is a great point. People who don't know me, sometimes think I'm out to get people to admit they're delusional, which is not the case, and is wrong in more ways than most can grok. My purpose isn't that at all, but like you, to make people think, I can't decide for you if you're delusional or not, I can only point out blips in your process, information or your communication, and from there, it is in your court.
Taiaka Wrote:The n00bs don't need to be handled with kid gloves, or wrapped in swaddling clothes, they just need to be respected.
I feel almost silly just quoting it to say "I completely agree," but I feel that is the best I can do with that comment.