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Angels of the religion of Hallmark
Terro
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Post: #1
Angels of the religion of Hallmark
Hey everybody, after a discussion in HannahTrinity's introductory thread came up, I decided to carry much of it over here.

The notion is that there is a difference in the perception of angels from the religious aspect and the historical aspect to the new-age hallmark idea. Where does this come from?

I feel that there is even a difference in angels between the Old testament and the New testament of the Bible. In the Jewish traditions and lore, Angels were supreme in the events of rendering the Lord's judgment, slaying whole cities such as sources say Gabriel did at Sodom and Gomorrah, slaughtering 187,000 Assyrians in a single night as sources say Michael did, or even delivering the plagues of Egypt. In the New Testament we see Angels as patrons and protectors, as the delivery system for good news such as the Birth of Jesus or the resurrection of Jesus, St. Michael the patron of police and guards, many phrasings and interpretations even state that for every blade of grass there is an Angel coaxing it to grow.

Where does this change happen? Consider the writings and early founding of the church. In an effort to garner new Christians (or cultists depending on the time period), it was a far greater idea to pitch armies of powerful Angels that protected Christians rather than the time honored tradition of deities or celestial enforcers that punished you if you didn't believe the particular religion being promoted at that instant. How cool does it sound to the easily coerced person if they are told and believe that just by joining the Jesus club they get their very own immortal and divine guardian Angel?

This is my viewpoint on a bit of the history and the change in the Angelic symbol in order to be a better advertising campaign, but as for my personal beliefs on Angels. It started by saying that picturing punishments and tortures for specific and heinous sinners might not be a Demonic trait but actually an Angelic trait.

Angels are beings of Order, this is why I believe that angelic intervention is very rare in this world, or any place in the physical plane. I believe that Angels are protectors of Order by stopping outside influences (malevolent supernatural forces) from having effects on those in this plane. If they were protectors of people, then it would be a different story. Additionally, I believe in the importance of preservation of free will, if an outside force or influence were to come into this plane to positively or negatively effect any individual, it is an outside influence on their free will and therefore imposing upon it. Sources within this plane with free will however are absolutely fine, I can exercise my free will to kick puppies and eat babies if I so choose, I have to deal with the consequences of other people's free will after that though.

I believe that Angels are extensions of the divine in that they carry out different functions. A seemingly popular idea I have seen of late is the idea of Angels of "vengeance" being hot tempered and ready to fly off the handle or tear someone apart with bare claws. I think this is a misnomer and a perversion of the idea, in some cases I personally think the individual spreading it is tainted or Fallen and does not realize it, these are few and far between however. An Angel devoted to Vengeance might be one of the more stable individuals, delivering the appropriate measure of divine justice in cool and calculated manner. Think of it as a summary execution rather than wanton slaughter.

I'd love to hear other input on the subject, personal experiences, religious reference or even abysmal hallmark representations (oh if only Chai were here now to insult us).

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2009-04-22 16:18
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HannaTrinity
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Post: #2
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
I have to agree with you on when and why angels were written to be protectors instead of warriors. After all, Jesus was supposed to be teaching peace and having warrior angels runs counter to that.

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2009-04-22 18:44
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Post: #3
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
I theorize that the steretype that angels are being of less influence than in the Old Testament (OT) comes from the thought many christians will have: why does God need angels if He is so powerful? Yes, in the OT angels were seen as powerful warriors for God. However, there were many times an angel was just there (i.e. Shad, Rach, and Benny in the fiery furnance).

Many people now-a-days see angels as a joke, beings unnecessary for the continuation of the Universe. However, I tend to see the world as being just one big game of Sims. The only difference is instead or directly guiding every "sims" path 24/7 can be too much like predestination. Why can't God delegate guiding duties to trusted angels?

Anyhow, yes there are peaceful angels but also angry angels. We all knew that already.

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2009-04-22 20:38
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Post: #4
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
It is my opinion that religious/spiritual beliefs regarding gods and angels, how one understands them and what their functions are is cultural. As one culture changed or became extinct altogether, so to their understandings of things except for what may have been preserved in written form and survived the passage of time.

I am also of the opinion that these types of beings are often "seen" in the light one wants or needs to see them in. If someone is afraid they may envision a protective spirit as a sword wielding champion. If someone is a healer, they will envision said beings as, perhaps, person's of pure light and radiance.
2009-04-23 23:52
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Terro
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Post: #5
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
As to the idea of the question: "If God is so powerful, why does he need Angels?"

I do not see the Creator as a fully separate entity from the Angels, or Angels separate from the Creator (unless Fallen). I see Angels as extensions of the Creator. For example, it is believed that Metatron functions as "the Voice of God," this is to say that the Creator has a message to be spoken, and so the Metatron is sent, not with a message but to be in the place for the message to be delivered. Upon the appointed time, and with Metatron in the correct place and in the presence of the correct recipient of revelation, the Creator flows into Metatron, Metatron ceases to be an Angel and becomes his function, that of the Voice of God. The Creator speaks the revelation, and then exits the vessel, the vessel again is Metatron.

Does this make sense?

The purpose then for Angels is to serve as a vessel for the Creator when the Creator is performing tasks, as well as to perform a purpose independently when they have not become their purpose.

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2009-04-24 15:02
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Motley
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Post: #6
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
Makes sense, I mean playing 'horse' isn't all that uncommon in shamanistic societies. There's a difference in scale, but not really in principle. I guess the difference being that angels are made for the purpose and can handle more 'juice' than a human can. You also get less 'static.'

But what happens when the vessel wakes up and says 'what did you just make me do???' That's when you start to have problems. In a perfect world that wouldn't happen. The vessel would be perfectly happy with whatever outcome...but the world isn't perfect.

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2009-04-24 17:41
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Terro
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Post: #7
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
and thus one possible cause for many to Fall. They may not understand or agree with the actions that were committed by their body while they were their purpose.

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2009-04-25 2:33
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Motley
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Post: #8
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
Terro Wrote:and thus one possible cause for many to Fall. They may not understand or agree with the actions that were committed by their body while they were their purpose.

Yeah, that's sort of what I remember/was told. I never fully broke ties, but let's just say I'm not as eager to agree to things as I once was.

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2009-04-25 4:53
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Post: #9
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
Sort of related but sort of not, isn't Metatron the "angel" from "The Golden Compass" books?
2009-04-26 21:54
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Post: #10
Re: Angels of the religion of Hallmark
Granamyr Wrote:Sort of related but sort of not, isn't Metatron the "angel" from "The Golden Compass" books?
Yes, but it came originally from Milton's Paradise Lost, which Golden Compass was partially based upon.

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2009-04-27 22:39
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