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“Real” Otherkin
chaitea
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Post: #1
“Real” Otherkin
Thought this would be an interesting topic since it comes up a lot for me when discussing kinship outside the internet.

So we got our fluff bunnies, the overly critical types and everything in-between or beyond (oh, and role players and trolls). And from those groups the concept of “real otherkin” has come up a lot and been defined in various ways on who can and can’t be.

Quote:Fluff-heads can’t be real otherkin cause they’re too fake and diluted by *insert excuse*

The overly critical can’t cause they have no faith in the idea and are blinded

Role-players can’t cause they’re just faking

Trolls can’t cause they’re just doing it to get a rise out of people

And otherkin can’t be real otherkin in the first place cause there is no such thing.


Overall, I’ve always seen otherkin defined as the BELIEFE that blah blah human blah blah not exactly human blah.

So no matter if you’re fluffy as all hell or critical to the point we wonder why you even want to talk about it in the first place, if you BELIEVE that your otherkin, then you are.
So sorry role-players and trolls but your out cause even you know you don’t actually believe what you’re on about in this area.


This tangent mainly came from someone asking me how to know whether someone is really an otherkin or not. A famous question among the community, but overall I’ve come to realize that so long as some believes they are otherkin, then technically they can fall under that term since belief is all it takes (mainly casue there’s nothing else to go on, and if you say otherwise I call shenanigans). I mean, that’s how we hold it at anyhow since there is no other way to actually know (besides maybe dying) so all we can call it is a belief.

And just cause some people are more credible then others doesn’t make them more or less likely to be otherkin and vice versa.

It pains me to say this almost since I do know of individuals who use the term but (from my perceptions) simply can’t be what they claim for various reasons. But then, who am I to judge a belief that even I can’t put my full and blind confidence in.

So when it comes to the notion of whom to and not to accept into the otherkin community, there really isn’t a sure-fire way. Sometimes, even the people who are critical of others and want them gone are the one’s who should be packing their bags, and in other cases those who want to accept everyone may find that they are even still weeding threw critically.
Overall, it’s a hard call since everything is just taken on word and sometimes face value. But overall, if you believe you are, then you are. But that doesn’t go into truth or fact in the slightest.

So yeah, just the notion of “real otherkin” got me thinking. How about you guys?

Anyone I call shenanigans on earlier in my rant want to go at it?

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2008-07-13 1:24
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Post: #2
Re: “Real” Otherkin
Quote:Fluff-heads can’t be real otherkin cause they’re too fake and diluted by *insert excuse*
Yes, but sometimes fluffies just need to learn on their own what is true of what they believe and what is not. This takes time, patience and effort on their part. If they don't WANT to learn, then in my opinion while their soul may be otherkin, they themselves don't care enough to find out what they truly are. Everyone starts out fluffy. Hey, to pagans we are fluffy. There's different levels of fluffiness.. including inability to believe in anything. Even *that* is a form of fluffiness in and of itself.

The overly critical part... I can see what you mean. But at the same time, sometimes people become so overly critical because overly critical people questioned them to the point where they couldn't answer, and started to disbelieve in yourself. Inability to answer a question does not necessarily mean you are faking, it simply means you don't know, that there are holes in your knowledge/memories.

All in all, there's no such thing as a "real" otherkin. Why do I say this? Because all in all, you only have yourself fully believing you. There is no possible way to 100% prove yourself, even to yourself. I've said it myself, if I had a way, I would transport my memories to paper or photo. But alas, we have not that capability. Believing in otherkin is believing that there is a hope of a chance that we are right, that the reason we feel as if we don't fit in with humans is because at our core we are not. It's not saying "I AM this" as much as saying "I believe I am this". "Real otherkin" to me is just the people who have the souls of something more than human. (By more, I'm not trying to say we are better...)

As for roleplayers.. I used to roleplay when I was 12-14. I was roleplaying, fantasy of course, and I realized later that half my ideas were from memories. (Note, I have horrible memory of this lifetime. I believe that it may have to do with the fact that I suppressed so many bad memories my brain just started suppressing them all. Trigger thoughts/etc make them come back to me). I realized that by going through old roleplay chats with people, and realized that I was channeling my true self in a creative way. Can I prove that? No.

Just because someone roleplays doesn't mean they aren't otherkin. It doesn't mean they are either. It all comes down to, within themself, to their core, do they feel like they don't belong here? Maybe not in this body, maybe not in this part of the world.. but just feel as if this is not where their "home" is?

Trolls.. Ahh trolls. Well, even some of these are doing it but hiding behind a mask, or something else.

Believing yourself to be otherkin doesn't necessarily mean you're right. Believing that you aren't doesn't necessarily mean you're right. I met someone that I sensed as otherkin (i.e. on the astral plane, I recognized him from my past, etc) He denies the whole idea.

You can't ever 100% know that someone else is otherkin, especially if you haven't met them. You can be extremely sure, but never 100% know. There's no way to 100% know it.

Sometimes people phrase what they believe themselves to be badly and are henceforth known as fluffs. It doesn't mean that they aren't, it just means that there was a slight snag in the expanation which would make it hard to grasp.

Quote:It pains me to say this almost since I do know of individuals who use the term but (from my perceptions) simply can’t be what they claim for various reasons. But then, who am I to judge a belief that even I can’t put my full and blind confidence in.
Well, as I have said before.. I will never be able to prove to you or anyone else on this site what I am. I have the memories, and I know a couple of people who were there when it happened who described it the same way.. but I'll never be able to absolutely prove it to anyone. It's just not possible. Here's what I'll say... it's easier to my perspective to simply be one type of entity, or even two or three if your "soul parents" were different. I just personally believe that if there is souls, there is ways for souls to be merged. I believe that at the core of every soul, the energy is slightly different. Sometimes it can connect, sometimes it can't. I believe that your soul (i.e. all souls) is at its core a bundle of energy (I mean like we are bundles of electrons... or whatever. Something like that.) and outside of that is what they prefer to be seen as.

I believe that otherkin is possible because of the fact that if souls exist, who is to say there is not a difference between say, a human soul and that of a dog. etc. I think that the "soul dna", aka the energy, is slightly different, like dna between us and dogs, and us and monkeys, etc, according to where it was originally formed.

Of course, that's just my belief. It doesn't mean I'm right, or that I can prove it, but it seems very acceptable to me.

And the way I look at it, if humans like playing with genes and dna, for example making the liger etc, why would it be so impossible that energy beings/etc would get bored and curious enough to play around -shrug-

Err.. sorry, kinda went off on a tangent and didn't intend to. My apologies >_<

I'll stop now >_>;;
2008-07-13 1:49
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chaitea
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Post: #3
Re: “Real” Otherkin
Feel free to go on tangents since that’s basically what my initial post is. And thanks for the feedback.

The stuff in the quote was more meant as a general slight against each group on why they can’t be otherkin. It’s not my actual belief but an overview of why many can say each isn’t otherkin. I am well aware of variations and specifics that go against such but was using that stereotype to get into my main point.

From where I was going, I believe that people can be otherkin but that there is no way to know if someone is a real one, and thus no possible way to weed the one’s who aren’t one.

Also, the idea of proof is entirely subjective so there goes that.

The most otherkin can have is credibility, and even that isn’t too much of a guarantee in the long run. Especially since some people who first came across as fluffy can find a better way to express themselves later while those who originally came across as credible can end up over the deep-end in a canyon of crazy.

So as a way to not have to fumble around if someone really is otherkin or not, I look at it as anyone who might be a human with something other than about them, but no matter how much they seem like it or not, there’s no way to know.


Just to clarify more where my rant comes from:
Recently I found an individual who I would describe as anything but credibly suggest the otherkin community should find a way to weed out all the fluff heads and fairy-princess sufferers.

It just seemed so bizarre to see someone who I would describe as such basically taking about how we need to kick people like her out.

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2008-07-13 2:29
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Post: #4
Re: “Real” Otherkin
If you take "otherkin" to mean "a member of the community" then yeah, all you need is belief to be otherkin.

On the other hand, if you take "otherkin" to mean someone who is in some way not human, then belief or lack thereof is completely irrelevant. Someone can believe themselves to be non-human and be right or wrong, someone can believe themselves to be human and be right or wrong.

Re kicking out the fluffy types . . . I would define fluff along the lines of: accepting uncritically every idea related to a concept. If someone "just feels" that they're otherkin, that's fluff. If someone reads a website and thinks "that's authority, it must be true" it's fluff.

Fluffy people can be non-human same as critical people - but if they are, they're non human only by chance. If I see a reason why they help the community, I'll welcome them with open arms. Sadly, what I see is lots and lots and lots of fluffy notions which are not critically examined being seriously harmful to others. I don't really care if some fluffball hurts themself, but I do care if someone new and inexperienced takes the word of a fluffball as law because it seemed authoritative, ends up believing it, and seriously sets back any chance they have of ever really knowing about themself.

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2008-07-13 2:33
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Post: #5
Re: “Real” Otherkin
Usually when I hear the term "real otherkin" it is used a bit like a huffy responce to being disagreed to. Usually in conjunction with being reminded that all otherkin are currently incarnated as human beings. That anyone accepting that they are human aren't "real" otherkin.
But this is a little off topic.

Everyone who considers themselves otherkin, is for all intents and purposes.. otherkin. Whether they are actually the incarnated and/or reincarnated non-humans in human bodies that they think they are isn't the point.
What we can try to do is to keep ourselves as rational and inquisitive as is needed to challenge people to think and examine themselves and in that manner causing them to either get over their need to roleplay or pretend, or decide to move to a different subculture out of simply not getting away with talking out of their rear ends in this one.

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2008-07-13 2:49
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Post: #6
Re: “Real” Otherkin
chaitea Wrote:Also, the idea of proof is entirely subjective so there goes that.

Exactly!

As I've stated here before, I don't wholeheartedly think someone is otherkin until I feel their energy in person and figure that out for myself. This is entirely subjective and at the end of the day it's not fool-proof (is someone otherkin just because they have a crapton of metaphysical ability? maybe their body is just tuned into specific types of energy? what about the energy is really non-human? does otherkin really exist?). Granted, this personal benchmark probably explains my abnormal eagerness to meet other kin IRL over the years.

Until I meet an individual IRL, I just assume they're likely not kin. I don't harp on this nor do I mean any disrespect, it's just how I do things. This makes my life a lot easier not to get so hung up about if someone is or is not otherkin. Besides, just because I think someone is BSing or I simply don't accept their claims of being kin doesn't mean they don't have something useful to contribute to a discussion nor can shed insight into my own metaphysical being. Heck, if I thought that, I'd have to either rethink my benchmarks or quit being on these online forums.

Personally, I'd rather be debating those that affect the well-being of this community than if someone is strictly truly non-human or not, too fluffy or too critical etc. Only when it affects the well-being of the community and metaphysical development of individuals (oh ya, and of course the physical well-being of the individual) do I really give a crap nowadays. Otherwise, I just let people believe whatever they want to believe. Naturally, I prefer a equilibrium of some fluffdom with some criticism - but that's just me.

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2008-07-13 3:59
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Post: #7
Re: “Real” Otherkin
The whole thing of making judgments about who is 'real' and who isn't runs rampant on the net, and not just here. In my experience, it's a waste of time and does more harm than good. I'm not saying that people shouldn't ask questions, they should, but making someone not feel welcome because they don't fit someone else's idea of what they should be is harmful to that person's ability to explore their own identity. I've seen it on shamanism lists, where people think they have to describe their lineage before anyone will listen to them, when at the same time many agree that the spirits do the real teaching. I've heard of it happening on transgendered lists where androgynes and bi's are thought to be wishy-washy fence sitters and are expected to pick a side rather than following their own sense of self.

Feeling that you are is enough for me. It means you need to explore the options. It doesn't mean that you know. Everyone is a work in progress.

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2008-07-13 4:09
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Post: #8
Re: “Real” Otherkin
As long as you aren't annoyingly fluffy or think you're something without a soul, you're 'kin by me. I've noticed that fluff often decide they're truly not kin once the glamor wears off. The only "proof" I've come across, is other people who share memories that I have. Other than that, I know what I'm pretty sure I know I am...of course I could just be having very detailed and "real" delusions...but whatever.

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2008-07-13 5:08
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Post: #9
Re: “Real” Otherkin
My 23 cents:

?. If someone thinks they're Otherkin, who am I to disagree? Instead, all I can hope is by stating my opinions, and others stating their opinions on the matter, maybe if they really are deluding themselves, they'll figure it out eventually. I've heard of people thinking they were formerly 'kin who later realized that, for one reason or another, they really weren't. And, if we're open enough to disagreement... this shouldn't be a big deal! We should be able to go, "no worries, you're still a cool person, maybe we'll meet again somewhere else. Feel free to chat away here about your theories on the subject still, or adieu, blah blah blah..."

6. Too much interrogation can be a bad thing, if you're doing it to someone else. If someone's new to the bit and they grill themselves, sure, they may find answers. At the same time, their mind may come up with answers that aren't really real answers, but just made-up ones that fit for now. That can screw you over in the long run. I'm all for self-questioning. I do it all the time. At the same time, I understand that there is no pressure to have answers, and if I don't know something, I don't know something. Big deal. If someone else is also under the same understanding, it's great. However, that needs to be said: there shouldn't be a time limit to formulate your beliefs

!. Everything is subjective. This isn't science, this is spirituality. There does not have to be a sense of rationality or reason to these beliefs, necessarily, because rationality and reason, as we know them, are not always concepts used to describe things that do not work within those constraints. These are also human concepts. If we're dealing with things that weren't originally human to begin with, why would we try so hard to fit them into human terms? There are a lot of things about me that I try to explain on here that will never fully work out in language, because there is so much MORE to it. And a lot of it I just can't explain in any sort of human term. Not most people would get what it's like to not see, hear, taste, smell, or touch, but to feel everything the same way and still be able to distinguish bits and pieces. It's not a human notion, and while my mind can vaguely comprehend it, and my energy can fully comprehend it, it's near impossible(but nothing is ever truly impossible) to explain with little typed out words and no emotion conveyed.

X. Many of the best trolls share beliefs on the subject, and just enjoy getting people angry. I love being a troll when I get a chance to. There's always a juicy target. The best solution to this? Stop getting so riled up about your beliefs. At the same time, I used to be horrible troll-bait. Now? Go ahead, insult me. I very rarely care. Man, I can stack sarcasm on top of ridicule on top of insult on top of explanatory rationale. But honestly, it's the internet. You could pull out your-mom jokes and it just doesn't work on me. Now try it IRL, different story. But being IRL with me is always a different story.

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2008-07-13 19:29
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Post: #10
Re: “Real” Otherkin
Re how too much grilling can be a bad thing: while I generally agree, I think there's a flip side. I don't think there's anything wrong of itself with people being nice and accepting and such. The problem comes when people say "You can't grill!" but at the same time provide "trait lists", "signs of being otherkin", random assorted things that they associate with different types . . . and present that as fact.

In that situation, you have a point of view being pushed forward without any way to contradict it, and the contradiction itself against the rules. THAT'S where things get messy. As such, I think in general the more a place presents personal beliefs as universal facts, the more necessary it is for people to (loudly, at times) call bullshit on it.

Seraphyna Wrote:As long as you aren't annoyingly fluffy or think you're something without a soul, you're 'kin by me.

Though I sometimes use the term for shorthand, I don't believe I, my energy relatives, or indeed anyone else here actually has a soul in the first place <!-- sTongue --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- sTongue -->

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2008-07-13 23:32
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